Thinking in Circles: An Essay on Ring Composition (The Terry Lectures Series)

Book Description

Many famous antique texts are misunderstood and many others have been completely dismissed, all because the literary style in which they were written is unfamiliar today. So argues Mary Douglas in this controversial study of ring composition, a technique which places the meaning of a text in the middle, framed by a beginning and ending in parallel. To read a ring composition in the modern linear fashion is to misinterpret it, Douglas contends, and today’s scholars must reevaluate important antique texts from around the world.
Found in the Bible and in writings from as far afield as Egypt, China, Indonesia, Greece, and Russia, ring composition is too widespread to have come from a single source. Does it perhaps derive from the way the brain works? What is its function in social contexts? The author examines ring composition, its principles and functions, in a cross-cultural way. She focuses on ring composition in Homer’s Iliad, the Bible’s book of Numbers, and, for a challenging modern example, Laurence Sterne’s Tristram Shandy, developing a persuasive argument for reconstruing famous books and rereading neglected ones.

The Iliad (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition)

Average customer rating:

A great story that anyone would enjoy putting aside all the academic chatter.
A deeply powerful tale told in an equally powerful way by Fagles
Requirement for Western Civilization
Okay translation
What is the big deal?

The Iliad (Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition)
Homer
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140275363

Amazon.com

This groundbreaking English version by Robert Fagles is the most important recent translation of Homer's great epic poem. The verse translation has been hailed by scholars as the new standard, providing an Iliad that delights modern sensibility and aesthetic without sacrificing the grandeur and particular genius of Homer's own style and language. The Iliad is one of the two great epics of Homer, and is typically described as one of the greatest war stories of all time, but to say the Iliad is a war story does not begin to describe the emotional sweep of its action and characters: Achilles, Helen, Hector, and other heroes of Greek myth and history in the tenth and final year of the Greek siege of Troy.

Book Description

This timeless poem-more than 2,700 year old-still vividly conveys the horror and heroism of men and gods wrestling with towering emotions and battling amid devastation and destruction as it moves inexorably to its wrenching, tragic conclusion. Readers of this epic poem will be gripped by the finely tuned translation and enlightening introduction.

Translated by Robert Fagles
Introduction and Notes by Bernard

Customer Reviews:

A great story that anyone would enjoy putting aside all the academic chatter........2007-08-08

Translation (in my opinion and experience) is not so much about accuracy as it is about hearing or reading something, absorbing it, and telling the same thing in another language in a way that can best be understood or even--we hope in this case--engaging or entertaining to the listener or reader. The Penguin Classic version of the Iliad does this quite well; and the translator has proven himself to be a good teller of the story in English given to us by Homer so long ago.

Don't read the Iliad because it's a classic, or because it's Greek, or because Homer wrote it. Read it for the same reasons and with the same mindset as you would any book written today, because it's good--and in this case outstanding. Put simply, don't analyse it or study it, just read and enjoy.

The Iliad is really that good.

A deeply powerful tale told in an equally powerful way by Fagles.......2007-05-22

The Iliad is certainly a piece of literature that has stood the test of time - and with good reason. War has constantly been a feature of human society and the Iliad tells of all its horrors like few other pieces of literature. But the epic is more than just a war story - it's a story of human limits and mankind's (especially in the West) constant struggle to deal with the realities they create. I suppose one could respond that this epic is more involved with human potential but it is very hard to read either the character of Hector or Achilles as anything but a tragic character - as someone who paid dearly for his role as "hero" of Troy or Greece. This is not a great piece of literature because it projects heroic ideals that should inspire us, though this aspect of the epic has played its own powerfully important role, rather, it is a great piece of literature because just as the epic appears to throw those ideals up for lauding, it problematizes them - it illustrates their often tragic consequences. The heroic individual who can single-handedly make a difference and the ethic of competition the epic oozes have played profoundly important roles in shaping Western history but the Iliad is great because it draws out the ugly consequences these ideals can produce and the price one pays for holding them too close.

Fagles' translation - for all I can tell - is an excellent one. I know no Greek (Sanskrit was my "classical" language) but the power of Fagles' rendering is palpable throughout (especially in the masterful first chapter) and it is difficult, though not impossible, to imagine it being more so in another translator's hands.

Requirement for Western Civilization.......2007-05-12

How can anyone not give The Iliad 5 stars? Not only is it the fountainhead of all Western literature, it's a great story!! READ IT!!

Okay translation.......2007-03-29

I'm not convinced that this translation is an improvement to the Lattimore or Fitzgerald translations. It's readable and slightly more up to date in idiom, but it is somewhat predictable as a translation. It lacks the boldness of the translation by Stanley Lombardo, who has, in my opinion, produced the freshest and most exciting translations of both the Iliad and the Odyssey. The prose renditions of the Odyssey (the updated Rhieu and the Griffin/Hammond) are as readable and more exciting than the translation by Fagles. That said, it is still a fine translation, but if you already have the Lattimore translation (or if you are lucky enough to have the Lombardo translation) there isn't a whole lot to be gained with this translation.

What is the big deal?.......2007-03-22

All the zombies kept telling me to purchase the Iliad and were raving about how intellectual it was. The age of it should have been a first clue. Really a rather boring read that is tripe with inept ideals. Homer Simpson was named after this guy but I believe that he has more insight into the subject matter than the original home boy they call Homer. Good for using to set your coffee mug on and start a fire with in the fireplace, but beyond that it is really a lot of rubbish. I wish Penguin Classics would actually publish classic reading material instead of a lot of blah blah.

Average customer rating:

Odyssey/The Illiad Penguin box set
The Set You Should Own
Reads Like a Dream
Two greats for the price of one
Excellent translations -- not to mention great stories

Iliad and Odyssey boxed set
Homer
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0147712556

Amazon.com

This is a boxed gift edition of Fagles's two widely acclaimed translations of Homer.

The Iliad is typically described as one of the greatest war stories of all time, but to call it a war story does not begin to describe the emotional sweep of its action and characters: Achilles, Helen, Hector, and other heroes of Greek myth and history in the 10th and final year of the Greek siege of Troy. The Odyssey is, quite simply, the story of Odysseus, who wants to go home. But Poseidon, god of oceans, doesn't want him to make it back across the wine-dark sea to his wife, Penelope, son, Telemachus, and their high-roofed home at Ithaca. The story is told in easy-going, beautiful poetry; the characters speak naturally, the action happens briskly. Even the gods come across as real people, despite the divine powers they exercise constantly. Both works have been hailed by scholars and the public for the powerful language that brings clashing, pulsing life to these ancient masterpieces.

Book Description

A beautiful gift set of Robert Fagles' award-winning translations of Homer

Gripping listeners and readers for more than 2,700 years, The Iliad is the story of the Trojan War and the rage of Achilles. Combining the skills of a poet and scholar, Robert Fagles brings the energy of contemporary language to this enduring heroic epic.

If The Iliad is the world's greatest war story, then The Odyssey is literature's greatest evocation of every man's journey through life. Here again, Fagles has performed the translator's task magnificently, giving us an Odyssey to read aloud, to savor, and to treasure for its sheer lyrical mastery.

Each volume contains a superb introduction with textual and critical commentary by renowned classicist Bernard Knox.

* Deluxe paperback editions with French flaps and acid-free paper in a handsome slipcase

* Robert Fagles is the recipient of the 1997 PEN/Ralph Manheim Medal for Translation and a 1996 Academy Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters

* The Iliad was a New York Times Notable Book and won the 1991 Harold Morton Landon Translation Award by The Academy of American Poets, an award from the Translation Center of Columbia University, and the New Jersey Humanities Book Award

* The Odyssey was chosen by Time as one of the ten Best Books of 1996

Customer Reviews:

Odyssey/The Illiad Penguin box set.......2007-09-24

A very nice set. It looks good and the binding is sturdy. It should last many years of use and still look presentable on the shelf. The poetic translation is the best I know of. A poetic translation is always suspect because either meaning, tone or the poetic phrases will have to be sacrificed at certain (usually frequent) points. This one goes quite a ways in the direction of maintaining the feel of the original, and staying poetic - a least better than any other translation I know of. The original has a sound and movement in its meter that is unmatched and this translation does not match it, but it does occasionally remind me of the original, and there are a very few, if any, really awkward phrases. The text is also approachable by someone who is not a classical expert, another problem with many translations. Not a masterpiece, but it does allow you to get glimpses of the masterpiece that is the original. It is a very approachable and enjoyable translation, and the best thing out there for these very important, enjoyable, imaginative, and pivotal works in Western literature.

The Set You Should Own.......2007-06-06

Quality. Quality. Quality.
And at a VERY nice price.
A common problem with sets like these is that the type is often
crammed so close together, and so light, it can be extremely hard to read.
That's NOT the case here.
Very easy on the eyes, well spaced and printed on surprisingly thick, rag edge stock.
The binding (so important in a paperback) is absolutely first-rate.
The covers are way beyond what you'd expect at the price.
And boxed is always nice.

Quality. Quality. Quality.
And highly recommended.

Reads Like a Dream.......2007-04-15

This two volume set is excellent. Both books are essential pieces of literature which belong together on everyone's bookshelf. Western Literature began with Homer. If our entire civilization were to be lost and only Homer's great classics were to survive, human culture would be well represented.

Different translations have somewhat of a different flavor. This particular translation is well constructed, easy to follow and represents the works very well. Other translations, such as Samuel Butler's, Homer - The Iliad and The Odyssey, which is more formal tend to present Homer with a bit more grandeur, but then, that is really a matter of individual taste. This edition cannot be faulted.

If you are looking for a gift for someone you really care about. You might want to consider this edition of Homer's Illiad and Odyssey. This boxed set not only looks good - it reads like a dream.

Two greats for the price of one.......2007-03-12

The Iliad and The Odyssey are epics that everyone should read whether their required to at school or not. There are places with dullness, but also ones of great excitement. Homer transcends even modern writers with his graphic telling of Troy's fall. Incredible writing, and even more incredible to see that perhaps we haven't evolved so much into loving violence as we may think, it's been here for over two-thousand years.

Excellent translations -- not to mention great stories.......2007-01-16

I have a number of translations of these works in my personal library. Since I was beginning a new course about these books, I went searching for a more up-to-date (modern) approach.

Some professors of classical studies have criticized these translations for being marred by excessive use of colloquial language and that Fagles' meter does not capture the feeling of the Homeric hexameter. That may be true but, as far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter.

Fagles' translation is very easy for the ordinary American to read and that is most important as far as I am concerned.

Black Ships Before Troy: The Story of The Iliad

Average customer rating:

no illustrations in my edition
Great book for an 18-year old remedial reader
Familiarity breeds comfort in the classics
Very good retelling--but not the best
Black Ships Before Troy

Black Ships Before Troy: The Story of The Iliad
Rosemary Sutcliffe
Manufacturer: Frances Lincoln
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 1845073592

Book Description

Homer's epic poem, The Iliad, is one of the greatest adventure stories of all time. Rich with arresting imagery and memorable characters, its powerful metaphors still permeate modern culture. This brilliant retelling offers young readers an exciting introduction to the heroes of ancient Greece while providing the complete story of the battle of Troy. The legendary beauty, Helen, is abducted, leading to a decade-long conflict in which even the gods and goddesses take sides and intervene. This is the Trojan War, where the most valiant heroes of the ancient world are pitted against one another. Here Hector, Ajax, Achilles, and Odysseus meet their most formidable challenges and in some cases, their tragic ends. Rosemary Sutcliff makes such extraordinary stories as those of the Trojan horse, of Aphrodite and the golden apple, and of the fearsome warrior women, the Amazons, accessible to contemporary young people. Superb illustrations enhance the story's dramatic appeal.

Customer Reviews:

no illustrations in my edition.......2007-10-10

I have not yet read this book- so my review is only based on my disappointment that I bought this book after reading about the wonderful illustrations. I have a much longer version of the Iliad, which I am reading to my children. I bought this so I could read it to them also, to give them more of an understanding of the Iliad. I read the wonderful reviews about the illustrations and thought the book sounded perfect. While the cover is beautiful, it is the ONLY illustration in the whole book. The older edition must be the one with the pictures, I will be checking into whether or not it is still available.

Great book for an 18-year old remedial reader.......2007-03-15

I have been tutoring an 18-year old remedial reader in basic phonics. We first read D'Aulaire's Greek Myths, as he wanted to read about heroes. We then graduated to Black Ships Before Troy, as he had seen the movie, Troy. This is a great book. It is well-written, full of intriguing details and actions which are brought to life by Sutcliff. She is one of my favorite authors, anyway, so I knew it would be good, but it is GREAT. We can hardly wait to move on to the Odyssey.

I'm sure it would be good for younger, excellent readers, but it is a great hero book for older students and adults, too.

Familiarity breeds comfort in the classics.......2007-01-04

Rosemary Sutcliff excels at story telling by making the epic story of the Iliad understandable and thrilling to a seven year old. I have read this book to my son at least three times, beginning when he was seven years old. He is now so familiar with the story and characters of the Iliad as a result of Black Ships Before Troy that to read Homer's Iliad will simply mean meeting these familiar characters again. Sutcliff's writing is so engaging that parents as well will enjoy this book. An absolute bonus is the excellent illustrations by Alan Lee.

Very good retelling--but not the best.......2006-12-20

My seven year old and I read this together immediately after finishing the version of the Iliad retold by Ian Strachan and illustrated by Viktor Ambrus. While Sutcliff and Lee's effort is a good one, and I would recommend it highly, Strachan and Ambrus's is superior: the language is tighter and less florid, the artwork more dynamic and compelling. Unfortunately, the Strachan version is out of print and hard to find, but this one is a more than acceptable substitute.

Sutcliff's language is full (to the point of distraction) of similes and other figures of the "wine-dark sea" sort, which like a tongue-tingling seasoning (see what I mean?) is fine in moderation, but she overdoes it. Nevertheless, it's a good introduction to the Iliad. At 113 pages, it's possible to read this at bedtime over a week if you've checked it out from the school library, as my son did.

But do check out my review of the Strachan version.

Black Ships Before Troy.......2006-08-07

Most anyone knows that they are supposed to read Homer's Iliad at some point in their life, but many are intimidated by its complexity. For starters, try Rosemary Sutcliff's Black Ships Before Troy. It is a beautiful and delightful read for all ages. You can easily sort the characters and get a grip on the plot without wading through the epic or the longer narrative. Once you have done this, you may muster the courage to attack the Iliad itself and impress all of your friends, or you can just let them think you are an expert in ancient literature after Black Ships Before Troy.

Average customer rating:

A fine translator and performer
An engaging, entertaining, and memorable reading of the classic work

Iliad
Homer
Manufacturer: Parmenides Audio
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: 1930972083

Book Description

The classics are rapidly receding from public consciousness, and modern revisions of them, such as the film O Brother, Where Art Thou, are in genuine danger of never being linked to their original inspiration. Noted classicist Stanley Lombardo breathes new life into one of the most famous and beloved ancient works with an engaging and vibrant audio performance of Homer's Iliad. This state-of-the-art compact disc recording provides high-quality access to one of the greatest works in world literature.

"Gripping . . . Lombardo’s achievement is all the more striking when you consider the difficulties of his task . . . He manages to be respectful of Homer’s dire spirit while providing . . . some wonderfully fresh refashioning of his Greek. The result is a vivid and disarmingly hardbitten reworking of a great classic."--Daniel Mendelsohn, The New York Times Book Review

Customer Reviews:

A fine translator and performer.......2006-11-03

Stanley Lombardo strives to bring a classic to the hearts and minds of a modern, disinterested audience, an audience which may regard this epic as a relic of ancient times. As language mutates over time and the meaning of words change, a point is reached at which literature becomes unintelligible except to an elitist educated minority. We see this happening in Shakespeare right now for example. Similarly, translations of Ancient Greek classics from 80 years or more ago now sound 'archaic' in style. Lombardo attempts in his translation to bring the Iliad into an 'ultra-modern' idiom, and he does this with the heart of a poet himself.

His search for the poetic message in the modern idiom comes at some slight cost in translational precision, too much for some purists. However there can be no doubt that Lombardo possesses a profound insight into his subject material and he has chosen his words deliberately and carefully. For those interested in the sound of the original language, Dr Lombardo has, to my mind, his simply wonderful recitation of the first book of the 'Iliad' in Ancient Greek on the internet. When Chryses speaks, one visualises the old man and when Achilles and Agamemnon argue, the emotions sound fully authentic. So too he achieves emotional integrity in this recording. The technical quality is excellent, with clarity throughout.

Although an introduction of some sort is probably mandatory in a recording of this nature, and Susan Sarandon's introduction is fine, I found her preamble to each book of the 'Iliad' quite annoying. These are nothing more than a plot-revealing, in fact plot-diminishing summary of what is about to happen. What point in this when Lombardo's translation rings so lucidly to the modern ear? Perhaps they are placed out of fear of monotony developing in so long a tale. Also the music, which initiates and concludes each Book is unvarying and a little too long at 60 seconds every time. Such are the decisions made by the marketing people these days. I side-stepped annoyance by down-loading only the Lombardo tracks to my mp3 player. (My apologies to Ms Sarandon, whom I admire as a fine actor.)

If you are interested in a modern recording of an ancient classic, then I would recommend this without reservation. After listening to Lombardo, he has won me over and I'm a big fan.

An engaging, entertaining, and memorable reading of the classic work.......2006-07-03

Ably translated and expertly narrated by Stanley Lombardo, Iliad is a flawlessly recorded, complete and unabridged audio presentation of the timeless and classical Greek tale of the Trojan War ascribed to the blind poet Homer. Enhanced with an introduction read by Susan Sarandon, this audio book edition of the Iliad fully captures the epic nature of this story of an ancient tragedy. A "must" for school and community library audiobook collections, this Parmenides Audio 12 CD, 15 hour edition of the Iliad is enthusiastically recommended for all listeners searching for an engaging, entertaining, and memorable reading of the classic work. Also very highly recommended as translated by Stanley Lombardo and featuring equally insightful synopses from Susan Sarandon, is Homer's Odyssey (1930972067, $42.00, 10 CD, 12.5 hours, unabridged, Parmenides Audio).

Average customer rating:

Good start on The Iliad
Excellent Value: An Interesting But A Slow and Bloody Story of Hand to Hand Combat in 1200 BC Troy, With A Good Introduction
Great prose translation
The Original Action book
Great Epic

The Iliad (Penguin Classics)
Homer , E. V. Rieu , and D. C. H. Rieu
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140447946
Release Date: 2003-04-29

Book Description

One of the foremost achievements in Western literature, Homer's Iliad tells the story of the darkest episode of the Trojan War. At its center is Achilles, the greatest warrior-champion of the Greeks, and his conflict with his leader Agamemnon. Interwoven in the tragic sequence of events are powerfully moving descriptions of the ebb and flow of battle, the besieged city of Ilium, the feud between the gods, and the fate of mortals.

Customer Reviews:

Good start on The Iliad.......2007-05-17

This is a good introduction to the Iliad. Short of reading the original Greek Richard Lattimore's translation is the best but Rieu's translation is written in straightforward, clear prose and is a good way to introduce yourself to the basic narrative and get a sense of the story. It is colloquial at times but not jarringly so. Then, move on to Lattimore and the Greek.

Excellent Value: An Interesting But A Slow and Bloody Story of Hand to Hand Combat in 1200 BC Troy, With A Good Introduction.......2007-05-12

I read Homer's Odyssey in about two days, and thought that it was an interesting and a compelling read. I read the translation by T.E. Lawrence. The Iliad is a much slower read by comparison, and it is a much more complicated book. It took me two weeks of reading on and off to make my way through this present book, and my longest stretch was just 50 pages before I would lose my concentration.

The story is over 400 pages long. It is a lengthy description of hand to hand combat by hundreds of fighters on the plains of Troy, outside the ancient town of Ilium. It is not about the whole war which lasted years, but simply the story or myth of only a few days of the fighting. The story describes wave after wave of sword fighting and spear throwing, going back and forth between the two sides, chapter after chapter. We follow every wound and every death and we read detailed descriptions of the wounds and what happens to the dead bodies.

The book is very slow to start and it is complicated by dozens of primary characters led by the Greek Achilles and the Trojan Hector. There are hundreds of secondary characters and 24 different Gods, led by Zeus. Overall, this is more of a reading experience that a simple story. It does get easier after 150 pages or so, as the reader gets into the flow of the story and learns the names of all the primary characters. In trying to understand The Iliad, It is hard to find any moral lessons here other than the weakness of hubris as a character flaw. The book is interesting since it is one of the first recorded stories or myths.

This is an excellent version of The Iliad because of the extensive introduction, analysis, list of characters, maps, and the summaries at the beginning of each chapter. Also, there are side notes on every page to give the reader a summary of the current events. The translation by Rieu is over 50 years old and it has been updated and edited twice, the most recent by Peter Jones. The commentary and analysis is essential to the understanding of the novel. You get that here for free as part of the Penguin Classic. Peter Jones and Rieu present some interesting comments on the date and the history of the Iliad manuscript, and it relation to oral traditions.

So, this is an interesting historical story, well presented with excellent notes.

Great prose translation.......2007-04-08

This is a great prose translation, updated and modernized by Peter Jones. The text crackles with energy and is much better than many verse translations (my favorite verse translations are by Lombardo and Lattimore). Many people - like myself - have an eye that is more comfortable with prose and modern English prose is very expressive. So this is probably a very good translation for most people. If you don't mind verse, try the fresh translation by Stanley Lombardo.

As for the story itself, what is there to say? It's a classic and, interestingly enough, is the first piece of written literature that introduces us to the ancient Greek gods and goddesses. But it is the story of Achilles and his anger (or rage), first at the Greek leader, Agammenon, and then at Hector and the Trojans. The latter kill Achilles' best friend, Patrokles.

I don't think anyone interested in the Iliad will find fault with this lively translation.

The Original Action book.......2006-07-08

The Iliad is perhaps the first of the action books. I read this translation because I found it to be very enjoyable and flows well. This of course is the story of Achilles, Helen, Agamemmnon, Odysseus, Hector and Paris. We have love, war, adultery, courage, family relationships, loyalty and morality all brought to the battlefield.

Most everyone has read the story (or at least seen the horrible movie staring Brad Pitt). This epic is truly epic and will not easily be forgotten. I found myself siding with both camps and my morality questioned by the story's nagging questions of what is worth fighting and dying for.

A book that is both timeless and a classic. You have not lived until you have read the Iliad.

Great Epic.......2006-06-04

I absolutley adored this book. I am reading the Odyssey now. I recommend you read both. It adds depth to the whole tale.

Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character

Average customer rating:

I am not too sure...
Thersites in Amazon
A place to start
Review of "Achiiles in Vietnam"
A real eye-opener

Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character
Jonathan Shay
Manufacturer: Scribner
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 0689121822

Amazon.com

Shay works from an intriguing premise: that the study of the great Homeric epic of war, The Iliad, can illuminate our understanding of Vietnam, and vice versa. Along the way, he compares the battlefield experiences of men like Agamemnon and Patroclus with those of frontline grunts, analyzes the berserker rage that overcame Achilles and so many American soldiers alike, and considers the ways in which societies ancient and modern have accounted for and dealt with post-traumatic stress disorder---a malady only recently recognized in the medical literature, but well attested in Homer's pages. The novelist Tim O'Brien, who has written so affectingly about his experiences in combat, calls Shay's book "one of the most original and most important scholarly works to have emerged from the Vietnam war." He's right.

Book Description

In this strikingly original and groundbreaking book, Dr. Shay examines the psychological devastation of war by comparing the soldiers of Homer's Iliad with Vietnam veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Although the Iliad was written twenty-seven centuries ago it has much to teach about combat trauma, as do the more recent, compelling voices and experiences of Vietnam vets.

Customer Reviews:

I am not too sure..........2007-08-20

about some of the quotes of American soldiers Shay repeated in this book. A few of the incidents related have some basis in fact I am sure and some are stretched by the individuals for effect. However, the comparason between Achilles and the modern warrior is spot on.

I just wish I had seen this thrity-five or so years ago instead of struggling for so long looking for answers. I still don't have "answers" but I do have a better understanding of some of what I have had to deal with after serving in Marine infantry from October, 1967 to April 1970 in Viet Nam.

Thersites in Amazon.......2007-06-15

Before buying this book and above all before taking it seriously, note the three pages devoted to it in Stolen Valor : How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of its Heroes and its History, by B. G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley. According to these authors, Shay failed to check any of the veterans' stories he relates, swallowed much absurdity whole, and is consequently a poor guide to the psychological toll of the Vietnam war.

A place to start.......2007-04-06

As a student in high school with a interest in Psychology, I found this book helpful. This is because I will be joining the Army and will encounter this is my field as a psychologist. It was very interesting to see the symptoms during the Trojan war as well in the Vietnam conflict. It shows teh reader what this men faced and what was asked of them and what they got in return. More importantly it shows the true face of what a soldier could go through and what his may do jsut to survive in a new environment. It was helpful to show the signs that this is happening as if a combat officer read it, he would be able to sight it before it got beyond repair. Excellent book and an excellent author.

Review of "Achiiles in Vietnam".......2007-03-29

One of the books I had been planning to read for several months is Dr. Jonathan Shay's groundbreaking work: "Achilles in Vietnam - Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character." I am glad that I finally found the time to acquaint myself with its message. The book is remarkable for several reasons. On its surface, it is one of the most comprehensive examinations of the phenomenon of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder among Vietnam veterans. Beneath the surface level, it is a brilliant exposition of the experience of Vietnam veterans in comparison with - and in contrast to - the warriors whose battlefield experiences in Troy are described in Homer's Iliad. To look at the tragedy of what our Vietnam veterans have experienced in returning home from that war through the lens of Homer's epic adds a poignancy and depth that is utterly without peer in my knowledge of PTSD literature.

My reading of this book is both timely and relevant, in light of the ongoing investigation of current conditions and practices of treating veterans returning from deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is also timely in that the televised coverage of the conflict in Mesopotamia has ripped open scabs and exposed unhealed emotional and psychological wounds in a large number of Baby Booker generation Vietnam veterans. They are returnign to VA hospitals and clinics in droves.

"Such unhealed PTSD can devastate life and incapacitate its victims from participation in the domestic, economic and political life of the nation. The painful paradox is that fighting for one's country can render one unfit to be its citizen." (Page xx)

Dr. Shay does a masterful job of using his own deep clinical experience of treating veterans at the VA Outpatient Clinic in Boston to lay out a clear and disturbing picture of how the way in which the Vietnam War was waged led to a staggeringly high percentage of returning veterans who are plagued with PTSD. I have enormous respect for the work he has done, for work as an author in sharing his understanding with the wider community. One caveat I must mention is that Dr. Shay clearly has a strong animus against traditional monotheistic religion in general - and the Judeo-Christian tradition in particular. He lays at the feet of organized religion much of the blame for the dire straits that our Vietnam veterans still find themselves. I do not necessarily agree with the conclusions that his philosophical position has led him to make, but with that exception, he lays out lucid and cogent explanations, diagnoses and prescriptions for addressing the troubling issue of persistent PTSD among Vietnam veterans.

An overarching principle that permeates the book is Shay's belief that healing from PTSD can only begin to happen when veterans are empowered to tell the narrative of what they saw and experienced in Vietnam, and that narrative must be communalized among other veterans and then more widely among family, friends and the broader community. For most Vietnam veterans, the conditions have not always existed to foster and to enable such difficult and painful communication. A veteran shares his frustrations in trying to tell others about his Vietnam experiences:

"I had just come back [from Vietnam] and my first wife's parents gave a dinner for me and my parents and her brothers and their wives. And after dinner we were all sitting in the living room and her father said: `So, tell us what it was like.' And I started to tell them, and I told them. And do you know within five minutes the room was empty. They were all gone, except my wife. After that I didn't tell anybody I had been in Vietnam." (Page xxii)

Dr. Shay ends his introduction with a clarion call to his readers to take an active role in the healing that is long overdue and the prevention of future hurt:

"To all readers I say: Learn the psychological damage that war does. There is no contradiction between hating war and honoring the soldier. Learn how war damages the mind and spirit, and work to change those things in military institutions and culture that needlessly create or worsen these injuries. We don't have to go on repeating the same mistakes. Just as the flak jacket has prevented many physical injuries, we can prevent many psychological injuries." (Page xxiii)

A motif that runs throughout this book is the strong belief that everything about the way in which the Vietnam War was fought - by the enemy and by American leaders and policy-makers - violated fundamental assumption of what is right and wrong in the world. This violation of basic assumptions is seen, by Shay and others, as the root cause for many of the psychological problems that attend those who returned from Vietnam as different men than the innocents who had first landed in Southeast Asia.

"The moral dependence of the modern soldier on the military organization for everything he needs to survive is as great as that of a small child on his or her parents. One Vietnam combat veteran said: `The U.S. Army [in Vietnam] was like a mother who sold out her kids to be raped by [their] father to protect her own interests.'" (Page 5)

"When a leader destroys the legitimacy of the army's moral order by betraying `what's right,' he inflicts manifold injuries on his men. The Iliad is a story of these immediate and devastating consequences. Vietnam has forced us to see that these consequences go beyond the war's `loss upon bitter loss . . . leaving so many dead men' to taint the lives of those who survive it." (Page 6)

"Veterans can usually recover from horror, fear and grief once they return to civilian life, as long as `what's right' has not also been violated." (Page 20)

In the chapter entitled "Grief at the Death of a Special Comrade," Dr. Shay lays out his premise about the need for communalization of grief:

"Any blow in life will have longer-lasting and more serious consequences if there is no opportunity to communalize it. This means some mix of formal social ceremony and informal telling of the story with feeling to socially connected others who do not let the survivor go through it alone. The virtual suppression of social griefwork in Vietnam contrasts vividly with the powerful expressions of communal mourning recorded in Homeric epic. I believe that numerous military, cultural, institutional, and historical factors conspired to thwart the griefwork of Vietnam combat veterans, and I believe that this matters. The emerge of rage out of intense grief may be a human universal; long-term obstruction of grief and failure to communalize grief can imprison a person in endless swinging between rage and emotional deadness as a permanent way of being in the world." (Pages 39-40)

The author shares several vivid descriptions of those combat veterans who have devolved to a berserk state. He also points out, in contradistinction to the "berserkers," the value of those who experience the horrors of war and yet somehow resist the pressure to become subhuman in their response:

"Gentle people who somehow survive the brutality of war are highly prized in a combat unit. They have the aura of priests, even though many of them were highly efficient killers." (Page 44)

This arresting description of "gentle warriors" makes me think of many friends I know - Renaissance Men who are also patriotic soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines - who have returned from their deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. To be sure, they have returned changed - in terms of their frame of reference and the vast library of memories and experiences they amassed in war. But they have remained essentially unchanged in terms of basic character and temperament. As Shay has indicated in this book, they tend to be individuals who have strong networks of support that they have used as platforms for telling the narrative of their combat experiences. Many began that narrative process even before returning home - through e-mails, Blogs and published articles and books.

In the chapter, "What Homer Left Out," Dr. Shay offers a very helpful and concise summary of the four kinds of traumatic war experiences that lead to PTSD:

"These four clusters are exposure to combat, exposure to abusive violence, deprivation, and loss of meaning and control. The four clusters are all aspects of war trauma, and PTSD symptoms are the lasting results for the veteran after the war." (Page 123)

This is a book that will add value and insight to any individual who is committed to helping veterans - from the Vietnam era and the most recent wars in the Gulf - to find healing and wholeness after experiencing the devastations of war. Those of us, as civilians, who feel we are unqualified to participate in the communal healing that is sorely needed, will find comfort and challenges in the truths that Dr. Shay presents in this seminal work. If we, as a society, fail to respond - pro-actively and with compassion - to the chronic challenge of PTSD and those who suffer from it - it will remain our "Achilles' heel."

Al

A real eye-opener.......2007-03-08

Even after an extensive education in classical literature, I had a great number of preconceived opinions about the behavior of Achilles in The Iliad. Dr. Shay's book not only pulverized my narrow-minded judgements, but opened a whole new world of understanding for me as to the kind of living hell the veterans of the Viet Nam war (and surely, those wars of the last ten years) suffered, and are still suffering. Finally, it helped me to understand things about my own father (also a Viet Nam veteran) that he himself simply had no way of explaining, even to himself, let alone his family. Rarely have I come across a scholarly work so powerfully written and relevant to the issues of today. Dr. Shay has authored a remarkable book! Thank you, Dr. Shay.

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Listening to Homer
Sir Derek Jacobi's masterful reading is pure pleasure
Abridged, but Excellent - and great fun, too
Too Much is Cut
Abridging Homer. Why?

The Iliad
Homer
Manufacturer: Highbridge Audio
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: 0143059289

Book Description

This masterful new verse translation of Homer's classic story of the Trojan War has been hailed by critics as "an astonishing performance" and "a remarkable tour de force." Robert Fagles, chairman of the Department of Comparative Literature at Princeton University, brings the energy of contemporary language of this 2,700-year-old epic, while maintaining the drive and metric music of Homer's poetry, as well as the impact and nuance of Homer's mesmerizing repeated phrases. As a scholar, Fagles praises Homer's directness and simplicity, the breadth of his imagination, and the power of his song. As a translator, he brilliantly captures these very qualities—which makes this Iliad not only a superb literary work, but a tremendous listening experience.

Customer Reviews:

Listening to Homer.......2007-08-26

Robert Fagles translation of The Iliad is amazing. I really enjoyed Sir Derek Jacobi's reading presented here on these disks. My only problem with this product is that the book has been abridged. I wanted to purchase this item because I feel that it's important to HEAR the words of Homer spoken. This epic poem has been passed down through the generations by word of mouth, so it's best to HEAR the words spoken. I suggest listening to the audio recordings while reading the book. These audio recordings are wonderful but there's way too much missing. Penguin Books should of shown Robert Fagles translation (and Homer) more respect.

The second chapter for instance is missing the last section often called, "the catalogue of ships." This is the part of the story where Homer lists all the Argenian armies which participated in the Trojan conflict. Okay, sure - it's sort of a boring section of the story. Still, it's an important part of the book! Possibly, one of the most historically significant sections of the story. This entire section has been cut from the audiotapes! The list of ships, which goes on and on, illustrates the vast army which was gathered by Agamemnon for the battle. You need to illustrate the overwhelming force the Trojans were facing to fully comprehend the battle.

Anyway, I enjoyed the recording, but I just wish that Penguin Books would have presented an option to purchase an unabridged version of Robert Fagles translation. Be prepared to read the parts of the book not covered by the tapes. You should also rent some dvd documentaries on the Trojan War. It really helps flesh out the impact of the poem. Homer rocks!

Sir Derek Jacobi's masterful reading is pure pleasure.......2007-07-01

I recall asking a bookseller years ago if he had the Jacobi audio narration of The Iliad in his store. His response, "We don't do audio. Bookstores are for books." Fine and dandy. But The Iliad was an oral poem to begin with, and for those who want to hear it, regardless of having read it or not, there is no better place to start. Yes, it is abridged, but the choice of abridgement seems sensible, though I would have preferred the poem in its entirety. Another reviewer refers to Jacobi, a mentor of Kenneth Branaugh, as the greatest living Shakespearean actor. Though there are many fine Shakespearean actors currently performing around the world in dozens of fascinating roles, it is easy to imagine that Jacobi is one of the finest. His reading of Homer's ILIAD is intense and riveting and a must for fans of the poem in English. PS: Check out Jacobi in his most brilliant performance as the lead in I CLAUDIUS (available on DVD and VHS) I, Claudius

N.B. : this Robert Fagles translation/Derek Jacobi narrated audio version is also available on AUDIO CASSETTE The Iliad (Classics on Cassette)

Sir Ian McKellen's very fine narration of Fagles' translation of The Odyssey in an unabridged CD The Odyssey by Homer and audio cassette recordings The Odyssey (Penguin Classics)

Sir Derek Jacobi's narration of Allen Mandelbaum's translation of The Odyssey is available in abridged CD or audio cassette versions The Odyssey

The brilliant actor/director/writer/narrator Simon Callow's unabridged reading of Robert Fagle's new translation of Virgil's Aeneid is another must-have for audio classics fans. The Aeneid

Abridged, but Excellent - and great fun, too.......2007-06-14

The Iliad was meant to be heard rather than read. It's a cliche, but it's true. So an audio version of the Iliad can be a great thing; rather than just a secondary version of a published book, it can be in some ways a purer representation of the original work. This recording is an (abridged) reading by Derek Jacobi of Robert Fagles's best-selling 1990 translation. I'll deal with three different aspects of this product separately: the translation, the performance, and the abridgement.

THE TRANSLATION (5 stars):

Judging a translation is a hard thing to do, and a lot of it comes down to personal aesthetic preference. Remember, all translations are paraphrase, and each can capture different facets of an original but none can capture all of it. This is particularly true of poetry, where much of the artistic content of the original is not only in the meaning of the words, but the sound, shape, and rhythm of the words themselves in the original language. What many translations of the Iliad lose, regardless of their literal accuracy, is the feel of Homer's verse - its directness, the concreteness of its language, and above all the headlong momentum of the whole thing. Homer's hexameter verse is propulsive, pulling the hearer (note: not the reader) forward with an unstoppable 15,000-line drumbeat that leaves you breathless. (Well, it leaves me breathless, anyway -- your mileage may vary.) Fagles captures this feeling magnificently in direct, confident, robust English. True, Fagles is not always literally accurate in the translation of specific words or epithets, but he expertly recreates the vigor of the piece. Richmond Lattimore's excellent translation (The Iliad of Homer) is closer to Homer in capturing some of the subtleties of wording, and is rigorous in its fidelity to the text, but the Fagles translation is my favorite for sheer heart-pounding excitement. The warrior spirit of the Iliad comes crashing through this translation undiluted and without apology.

THE PERFORMANCE (4 and a half stars):

Jacobi gives a spirited performance, with a forceful, fiery delivery well-suited to the heroic bombast of the battle scenes and the emotionally-charged clash of strong personalities. Achilles's offended pride, Hector's valiant but headstrong dedication to duty, Agamemnon's arrogance, and Paris's weasly self-serving faux contrition all come through vividly. My only criticisms of Jacobi's performance are these: while well-suited to the larger-than-life elements of the story, Jacobi can occasionally be too bombastic in a few of the more intimate moments. In addition (and this is admittedly a bit of a nitpick), I feel that he disregards the meter a little too much. As I mentioned above, the drumbeat of Homer's verse is a key aspect of its artistic appeal. Fagles chooses a loosely iambic meter which is not intrusive, but imparts a definite rhythm; at times, Jacobi all but ignores this and might as well be reading prose. There's no need for a bouncy Dr. Seuss-style delivery, but a bit more recognition of the rhythmic flow of the English version would suit me better. (This is, of course, a matter of taste.) Ian McKellen's (unabridged!) reading of Fagles's Odyssey translation (The Odyssey by Homer) is a contrast here: McKellen unobtrusively finds the rhythm of each line in a powerful (and a bit more textured) performance. These criticisms are by no means severe -- Jacobi's performance is excellent.

THE ABRIDGEMENT (3 stars):

Yes, as others note, this reading is abridged (approximately half of the text is left out), and a lot is unfortunately lost. When originally released on cassette in the early 1990s, the producers were probably skeptical of the sales potential of a 13-hour recording of an ancient Greek poem, and so hedged their bets with an abridgement. But both the print and recorded versions of Fagles's Iliad were surprising bestsellers. Happily, the publishers did not make the same mistake with Fagles's Odyssey, released in 1996: Ian McKellen's reading of that poem is unabridged (and glorious).

In this recording of the Iliad, most of the key episodes are preserved - for example the initial disagreement between Achilles and Agamemnon, Hector's return to Troy, Patroclus's death, Hector's death, and the final meeting between Achilles and Priam. Others are sadly missing. Some of the excised bits are obvious choices (the catalogue of ships in Book II is mercifully skipped over), but others are harder to bear. The biggest loss for me is the funeral games for Patroclus, but most lovers of the Iliad will find some favorite moment or another gone.

But while the cuts are deep, they are fairly clean. Entire, unbroken blocks of text (ranging from dozens of lines to whole books) are removed en masse, rather than a line here and a line there; there is (thankfully) no resorting to paraphrase or condensing lines. Further, the excisions are well-marked: all words coming from Jacobi's mouth are directly from Fagles's translation; missing sections are bridged with summarizing narration read by a different narrator.

While the cuts are unfortunate, they do not generally detract from the high quality of the listening experience. For those who know the Iliad well, think of this as a terrific "greatest hits" version of the poem. Enjoy the parts that are here, and don't pine too much for the missing bits. You can always go back to the text for those.

J. Van Hoose

Too Much is Cut.......2007-06-14

Where is Book X? One of the most exciting and heroic stories is cut from the reading: the night raid by Odysseus and Diomedes. Although the reading is well done, the absence of so much of the poem destroys the original intent. Pass on this one.
Also, Penguin Press is misleading in that Jakobi is not the sole reader. There is a woman who reads as well. It sounds like this one was pieced together. A shoddy job really.

Abridging Homer. Why?.......2007-06-06

However splendidly Jacobi reads the work, it is still not what the poet (or translator) had in mind. An abridged version isn't worth the time.

The Iliad of Homer: Books 1-6 (Living Voice of Greek and Latin)

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A Great Aid in Getting an Ear for Homer's Hexameter

The Iliad of Homer: Books 1-6 (Living Voice of Greek and Latin)
Stephen G. Daitz
Manufacturer: Jeffrey Norton Pub
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Audio Cassette

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ASIN: 0884322882

Customer Reviews:

A Great Aid in Getting an Ear for Homer's Hexameter.......2003-05-01

One of the problems with reading Homer in Greek is getting a feel for the rhythm of the hexameter. Fortunately for students of Homer's Greek, Stephen Daitz, an expert on the pronunciation of ancient Greek, has produced a series of tapes that make the acquisition of an ear for Homer's rhythm a task that is effortless.

In each set of tapes, Daitz reads six books of the Iliad unabridged. He pronounces the Greek according to a scholarly reconstruction of the language as it probably sounded in the time of Plato. In the written material that comes with the tapes, Daitz writes that he has attempted to follow the practice of the ancient rhapsode Ion (well-known to readers of Plato from the dialogue that bears his name) in performing a dramatic reading of the epic. As Daitz puts it, "Ion's delivery was neither mechanical nor nonchalant, but "committed"...such a style of deliver presupposes, I believe, a degree of emotional involvement by the performer , both in the narrative protions of the poem and, to an even greater degree, in the direct speech of the various characters."

Unfortunately, it is Daitz's "committed" performance of the epic that leaves something to be desired. Sadly, Professor Daitz is no Laurence Olivier. His delivery of the narrative is often overwrought and hystrionic and the voices that he gives to the characters can be jarring. His Achilles, for instance, speaks in a shrill, high-pitched voice that is thoroughly unsuited to "ho aristos ton Akhaion".

Book Description

"The finest translation of Homer ever made into the English language."—William Arrowsmith

"Certainly the best modern verse translation."—Gilbert Highet

"This magnificent translation of Homer's epic poem . . . will appeal to admirers of Homer and the classics, and the multitude who always wanted to read the great Iliad but never got around to doing so."—The American Book Collector

"Perhaps closer to Homer in every way than any other version made in English."—Peter Green, The New Republic

"The feat is decisive that it is reasonable to foresee a century or so in which nobody will try again to put the Iliad in English verse."—Robert Fitzgerald

"Each new generation is bound to produce new translations. [Lattimore] has done better with nobility, as well as with accuracy, than any other modern verse translator. In our age we do not often find a fine scholar who is also a genuine poet and who takes the greatest pains over the work of translation."—Hugh Lloyd-Jones, New York Review of Books

"Over the long haul Lattimore's translation is more powerful because its effects are more subtle."—Booklist

"Richmond Lattimore is a fine translator of poetry because he has a poetic voice of his own, authentic and unmistakable and yet capable of remarkable range of modulation. His translations make the English reader aware of the poetry."—Moses Hadas, The New York Times

Customer Reviews:

A great translation.... not for the meek at heart........2007-09-07

The Lattimore translation is, as I was told my my humanities teacher, the closest translation to the Greek to date. This is good in that it keeps true to the intended poetry of the work. This is bad if you are a non-English major college student :P

In this translation, not meant to be easily understood by today's English speakers, there are many sentences that end in the subject of the sentence, which can be confusing. If you don't pay very close attention, you will get lost. There are many similies and metaphors that can be confusing unless followed closely.... it sounds something like, "Then Hektor of the wide arms spoke unto Melos of the flowing hair. Then they two took their swift spears and their shining swords upon those whom the Goddess of the White arms had chosen.... not a direct quote, mind you but the book sounds like this throughout.

I would call this a difficult read. I would suggest it for the English majors, those who are poetry minded, or those who want a better understanding, better translation after having read another, more understandable translation.

Enjoy.

The Speaker's Handbook!.......2007-06-06

What the Iliad REALLY is

By Chris Miller

It is rather unfortunate that very few people today really know what the Iliad is. Upon being asked, most readers would say that the Iliad is about the Trojan War, or about Achilles or about Hector and so on; some might say it is about war or the frailty of human existence. But the plethora of answers indicates that they have not hit upon the one thing that ties all of them together. The Iliad is about speechmaking. It was written at a time when speechmaking meant life and death to the peoples of Greece. Under the oligarchic systems in place in Athens, Sparta, Corinth and other major cities in Archaic Greece, one's skill in speaking in front of the courts, councils, foreign officials, high-ranking dignitaries, armies and even in the market place could spell the differences between death, war, confiscation, banishment, fines, payments, safety, survival and peace. This book filled a demand for a handbook of speechmaking, the speeches of the Ancient heroes of the great united Greek forces who defeated a seemingly undefeatable Asian foe. The tale being set very far back in time, and glorifying all the Greek cities, removed any political or nationalistic barriers to its reception anywhere in Greece. It could therefore display the orator's art to the full, pulling no punches (sometimes literally so!) because it ran no risk of offending anyone. About 50% of the Iliad is speeches, and the other 50% narrative but written in dramatic, emotive, rhetorical fashion. This is not to say that Homer intentionally created a textbook for speechmaking, but rather that his audience craved an epic full of brilliant speeches, since their lives were so involved with this art. The kind of exquisite rhetoric Homer provided his audience befitted the oratory they thought their glorious ancestors possessed, and it in due form became the model for their own speeches and remained so through the democratic period, through the Hellenistic kingdoms, through the Roman empire and even into the Middle Ages. It was the central text for study in Greek schools, and the raw material for speechwriting exercises there. Senators and Emperors read and reread it, even memorizing it. In our own day we seem to have forgotten the Iliad's purpose and have viewed it as a rousing tale of war and adventure; but to do so misses the point. It was not read as a pleasant novel for petty diversion but instead as a study in public speaking. It can safely be said that this text enshrined the democratic tendencies of the Archaic Greeks in the everyday life of the ancient Greek and Roman world, and set the stage for the dialectical development of thought, culture and even science. The Iliad established the debate as a socially acceptable and even necessary thing for arriving at correct ideas. The debate remains the hallmark of Western developments in all areas. This is really what the Iliad is all about and is why it is the central piece of our Western civilization.

Awkward translation.......2007-02-14

The major problem I have with this translation is the awkwardness of its language. There are long, unwieldy sentences with twisted syntax. Sometimes, the translation is obscure. For example: "...and the will of Zeus was accomplished/since that time when first there stood in divison of conflict..." Not every line is as bad as that, however. There are some passages that read fairly smoothly, and the last two lines of the fourth book stand out. The translation as a whole, however, mutilates the English language. There are better options if you would like to read the Iliad.

Excellent English Iliad.......2007-01-28

Richmond Lattimore's translation of The Iliad is the strongest, most resonant version I have yet read. It doesn't have the energy or the high poetry of the Fagles or Fitzgerald translations, but it is nevertheless the most moving and the most rewarding to read.

Lattimore's translation approximates as closely as possible what it would have been like to hear Homer speak for himself, in long, rhythmic lines that leisurely extol the story of Achilles's wrath. One feature that I found helpful was Lattimore's direct transliteration of Greek names into English, rather than using their Latin equivalents. Here, Achilles is Achilleus, Menelaus is Menelaos, Hephaestus is Hephaistos, and so forth. Printing the names so that they can be pronounced as they were in the original Greek helped in separating this reading of Homer from those I had experienced before. And unlike the Fitzgerald translation, these names are not encumbered with accent marks and other distracting apparatus.

Lattimore's introduction is also worthwhile. He spends a few pages examining each of the many major figures--Odysseus, Diomedes, Agamemnon, Paris, Hektor--as well as describing the cultural context of Homer's epic. And index of characters and where in the text they can be found makes this, along with the introduction, an excellent edition for students and beginners.

But the chief attraction is, of course, the story itself. As I said, this is neither the most energetic nor poetic of the English versions, but it is certainly the best and most faithful to the original. Despite having read The Iliad several times before, I found myself moved and excited again and again by the often poignant scenes of war that Homer presents.

If you only read one English version of The Iliad, make this it. Highly recommended.

The Best English Version.......2007-01-22

Aside from Pope's, which sadly is very difficult to locate, Lattimore's Iliad is the best English Iliad ever made for a number of reasons. First, Lattimore translates the poem line by line, so that, if you want to follow the Greek text, you'll be able to do so with much greater facility than, Fagles, for example, who translates in verse "paragraphs" rather than lines. In Lattimore's careful, graceful rendering of Homer's prosody lends the verse authenticity without ever slipping into the pedantic. The line-by-line approach, moreover, most faithfully carries Homer's rhetoric and pace.

Second, Lattimore preserves Homer's formulas. Where a series of lines appears describing some event or passing some message, Homer packages those lines and repeats them virtually verbatim when the subject comes up again. Thus, for example, Agamemnon's speech in which he "tests" the resolve of the Greeks to raze Troy (with unfortunate results), by falsely urging them to drop ship and flee, is repeated almost exactly later in the poem when Agamemmnon really means it (2: 110-141; 9: 17-28). Similarly, each major character has a set of adjectives and adjectival phrases describing the character ("brilliant", "swift-footed" Achilles; Hector "of the shining helm" the "flowing-haired" Achaens, the "deep-benched" ships, etc.) These formulas accompany the characters and objects throughout the poem. Lattimore observes these formulas. (Fagles does too, frequently but not consistently. Fitzgerald generally does not.)

Third, Lattimore's rendering of the dactylic hexameter characteristic of Homer's verse, is amazing, at times bordering on the miraculous. Dactylic meters are generally awkward in English ("higgledy piggledy"). The virtousity, ease and fluidity that Lattimore acheives is something I wouldn't have believed possible before reading it here.

Because Lattimore tries throughout to translate what Homer said, rather than what one wishes he said (see Lattimore's introduction), the English verse is supple and aptly conveys what "makes it great." Moreover, the emotional and dramatic contexts are reliable. The butchering and slaughtering are immediate and terrible; the teeth-chattering fear of the heroes in the face of certain destruction prepares the many remarkable instances when a hero will flee rather than fight; the poignancy of Hector's grim certainty of his fate (as expressed in the famous scene in Book 6 where he "lets go" his heart's dearest treasure because he knows it is his destiny to do so) is dark and heartwrenching. Consider the famous speech of Achilles to Lycaon in Book 21, before Achilles cuts him down with a single stroke of his sword: After acknowledging that in a previous encounter, Achilles agreed to spare Lycaon and sell him into slavery instead, Achilles addresses Lycaon stoically, even calling Lycaon his "friend" before butchering him. Reminding Lycaon that that was then and this is now, Achilles points out that no one can survive his rage over Patroclus' death. "So, friend, you die also. Why all this clamor about it?/ Patroklos also is dead, who was far better than you are./ Do you not see what a man I am, so huge, so splendid/ and born of a great father, and the mother who bore me immortal?/ Yet even I have also my death and my strong destiny,/ and there shall be a dawn or an afternoon or a noontime/when some man in the fighting will take the life of me also,/ either with a spearcast or an arrow flown from the bowstring...." This speech is as moving and strange in English as it is in Greek. Nobody touches Lattimore in lyricism and profundity of diction in passages like this.

These are just a few of the many qualities that put Lattimore at the top of Homer's modern English translators. It is impossible to overstate the virtuosity of Lattimore's line. I hate comparisons of apples and oranges, even where they improbably fall from the same tree. That said, if I could only have one translation, it would be Lattimore's. Fagles' is very fine, and both reveal aspects of Homer's genius with a brilliance unknown before their separate appearances. Lattimore, however, renders the poem's diction, style and thematic exposition more closely than Fagles, and since Homer's poem iw what we want to read when we read it in English, this is the bottom line. (Fitzgerald doesn't compare.) But since we live in times of unprecedented abundance, I don't have to make that choice.

My only quibble: Lattimore tries, inconsistently, to transliterate names more "accurately," than in most versions. Thus, Achilles is "Achilleus;" Ajax is "Aias." Admirable sentiment. Awkward for the verse. I ignore it and "hear" the received versions when I'm reading Lattimore.

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