Discourses

Customer Reviews:

Redeeming a Sinner.......2007-05-30

Nicholo Machiavelli earned a bad rep with those who read and mis-read his best knon work, The Prince. It was not his intention to write this book to correct that bad image, but with this book we are given a different look at the great Itsalian poitical scientist/historian. He shows us the virtue of a democratic form of government. Recommended by anyone who wants a clearer view of the author, the Renaisance, and the growth of political theory.

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Niccolo Machiavelli, (1469-1527), writes the greatest treatise on keeping a republic vibrant by comparing Rome to republican Venice. Machiavelli has gained an unwarranted notorious reputation for his "evil" treatise on political thinking and acting through his authorship of "The Prince". "The Prince" received more notoriety than his politically erudite work "Discourses on the First Ten Books of Livy" in which Machiavelli espouses his belief that the Roman Republic was the best and most virtuous form of government to emulate. His breadth and understanding of Roman history is remarkable. Machiavelli's love of his country Florence, and the proud political work as a minor government administrator and ambassador Machiavelli performed during its years as a republic show through in this work. It was on his many ambassadorial trips to the French, Papal, and Italian courts that he learned to observe political leaders and their governmental institutions which formed the basis of his political theories in his many writings. My favorite quote from Machiavelli is; "It's better to act and repent then not to act and regret".

Modern philosophers starting with Machiavelli reject the classical view of politics as undemocratic and elitist. Only wealthy men of leisure would have time to develop the virtues and character necessary to rule. Machiavelli believed that man by nature was selfish and driven by ambition. Machiavelli is not interested in character formation and moral appeal but in building the right kind of institutions to govern society. Laws and justice would protect men from power hungry rulers. Modern philosophy is an out growth of the revolution that takes place in the natural sciences during the Enlightenment. The purpose of science is the conquest of nature man is in control of human life. Philosophers from Machiavelli on become sectarian. "Everything good is due to man's labor rather than to nature's gift."

As a retired Army officer and student of political philosophy, I found this to be an indispensable book to continue one's journey into political philosophy and history of Europe.

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Masterly written with principals still applicable today.......2004-08-05

There are two mean reasons to read Machiavelli:
Firstly, Machiavelli gives in his books a deep insight in political and psychological principals. Some comment on how these principals are - at times - conflicting. This I find Machiavelli's main strength: he shows that choices need to be made, that there isn't an unconditional best choice, but that the best choice is dependent upon circumstances (he tries to give insight in the circumstances) and that the worst is not to make a consistent choice.
For instance: when one conquers a city, one can subject it's inhabitants by being making them love you, or fear you. Which one chooses is also dependent on whether you attack a new city, or a city previously under your control, if one wants to make an example out of them (and what kind), etc. Most important however is that one must choice between making your subjects love you or hate you (you can't torture a person and then try to win his love).
Secondly, it is worth reading Machiavelli because of his literary abilities. He writes with charm, ease and lack of difficult words, he gives interesting and innovative illustrations, he has written two books that are real pageturners but that also give a new and deeper insight in society (so new that their books are still read today, and not just by literary scholars).

The general applicability of the principal used above, can be seen at relations (most couples stay together because of love, but some because they fear retribution by their partner), at parent/child level (parents either making their children obey because of fear of punishment, or by giving them a sense of responsibility and trust), at companies (a manager can motivate employees by either making them fear for losing their jobs, or by making them share company ideals and values) and at governmental level (Saddam ruled Iraq by fear, while a real democracy must be run by love - or at least lack of fear - for their leader).
At all the previous examples one can see that both situations can work, but the greatest mistake is not to make a consistent choice. It would be as great a mistake for Osama Bin Laden to try and win American love for the Islam by sending planes in the Twin Towers, as for Bush to try and win Iraqi love for democracy and justice by making a policy out of torturing unconvicted Iraqi's (and violating other civil rights). (Hopefully there will be an inquiry that will convince Iraqi's that the torture in the Abu Graib prison wasn't government policy, so that the faith in America, democracy and justice will be restored).

excellent reading.......2004-03-05

I'd recommend this book to anyone who might've enjoyed books like Sun Tzu's "Art of War" or Robert Greene's "The 48 Laws of Power" or even someone who is even religious (Muslim, Christian, etc.) who might not be too afraid of understanding the perspective of a politician. I mix in religion because, perhaps to someone who subscribes to a more "pious" take on life, Machiavelli may hold a severely secular stigma. But this book may offer an alternative, if even more secular, view on the decisions made by religious/state leaders like Moses and Muhammad. As for those who also are into government conspiracy theories I'd also recommend this book- mix it with what you already think and you may come up with some more original theories of your own! ;)

Machiavelli comes across as a learned observer of mankind and expresses a rare understanding of the continual state of flux of mankind. Through his studies of history and in comparing past events to "present" (circa 1500s) ones Machiavelli makes strongly supported arguments throughout the discourses. Where Robert Greene falls short in "48 Laws" I believe is Machiavelli's stronger point- applying the [quite helpful] description of the characteristics of the parties involved which helps the reader summate the outcomes [of many of the events that are described throughout his discourses] right along with the reading. "48 Laws" does this well at times but falls short of this fluidity with many of his examples which can leave a certain level of disparity between the example(s) given and the "Law" to which it applies.

Book Description

Machiavelli's New Modes and Orders is the only full-length interpretive study on Machiavelli's controversial and ambiguous work, Discourses on Livy. These discourses, considered by some to be Machiavelli's most important work, are thoroughly explained in a chapter-by-chapter commentary by Harvey C. Mansfield, one of the world's foremost interpreters of this remarkable philosopher.

Mansfield's aim is to discern Machiavelli's intention in writing the book: he argues that Machiavelli wanted to introduce new modes and orders in political philosophy in order to make himself the founder of modern politics. Mansfield maintains that Machiavelli deliberately concealed part of his intentions so that only the most perceptive reader could see beneath the surface of the text and understand the whole of his book. Previously out of print, Mansfield's penetrating study brings to light the hidden thoughts lurking in the details of the Discourses on Livy to inform and challenge its readers at every step along the way.

Customer Reviews:

Unique and invaluable.......2001-07-14

The return of this book to print is a great boon to anyone interested in Machiavelli, or who has ever struggled through the Discourses wondering just what Old Nick is getting at.

Originally published more than 20 years ago, "New Modes and Orders" remains the only full length commentary on the Discourses ever published in English. As such, it is indespensible, for the Discourses is at once Machiavelli's most difficult and most important book. Those of us who until now have had to rest content with rumaging through library copies dreading the due date will gladly shell out...to have a copy on our own shelves.

"New Modes" has often been critized for its reserve bordering on circumspection. There is justice in this criticism. This book is not an easy read, and it does not "explain" the difficulties of the Discourses in a way that readers who are not willing to work will find helpful.

But despite his overall reserve, Mansfield is surprisingly candid on a few points of extreme importance. My own impression is that his method is to state baldly a handful of broad but essential points, and then elusivley wade through a host of details the understanding of which allows us to fill in the gaps between the broad points.

One example will suffice. You don't need to be well versed in military affairs to realize that practically none of Machiavelli's arguments in Book II of the Discourses makes any sense. Mansfield helps us resolve this difficulty, right at the outset of his treatment of that Book, by plainly stating that Book II is an argument not about physical warfare but about spiritual warfare. It is in fact a long, sustained metaphor in which certain topics and terms serve as stand-ins for Machiavelli's real subjects. Then, having drawn the curtain completely open, just for a second, Mansfield lets it close, and proceeds to his line-by-line discussion of Book II--but only after he has let us know what is really going on, thereby giving us the tools to understand for ourselves what will be discussed in this all-important section.

I wish also to note that Mansfield is a masterful writer, and that few books--and almost no scholarly books--can claim to be this well done. He is also a very funny man. Machiavelli is lucky to have found a commentator who not only appreciates his sublte jokes but contributes some delightful jokes of his own that are worthy of the master.

Book Description

Discourses on Livy is the founding document of modern republicanism, and Harvey C. Mansfield and Nathan Tarcov have provided the definitive English translation of this classic work. Faithful to the original Italian text, properly attentive to Machiavelli's idiom and subtlety of thought, it is eminently readable. With a substantial introduction, extensive explanatory notes, a glossary of key words, and an annotated index, the Discourses reveals Machiavelli's radical vision of a new science of politics, a vision of "new modes and orders" that continue to shape the modern ethos.

"[Machiavelli] found in Livy the means to inspire scholars for five centuries. Within the Discourses, often hidden and sometimes unintended by their author, lie the seeds of modern political thought. . . . [Mansfield and Tarcov's] translation is careful and idiomatic."—Peter Stothard, The Times

"Translated with painstaking accuracy—but also great readability."—Weekly Standard

"A model of contemporary scholarship and a brave effort at Machiavelli translation that allows the great Florentine to speak in his own voice."—Choice

Customer Reviews:

Redefines the (misunderstood) modern view of Mr. Machiavelli.......2007-04-18

It is important to note that Niccolo Machiavelli's most important work is this. He actually advocates for a tripartite government with checks and balances, like our own US gov't before Montesquieu and Locke. no mean feat! obviously, there was more to this theorist than "the end justifies the means." Morality was of importance to him after all. No doubt, this is a classic of political thought. It marks the end, for better or worse, of the Middle Ages conformity and a bold forging ahead toward the modern political horizons. Look it over!

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Masterly written with principals still applicable today.......2004-08-05

There are two mean reasons to read Machiavelli:
Firstly, Machiavelli gives in his books a deep insight in political and psychological principals. Some comment on how these principals are - at times - conflicting. This I find Machiavelli's main strength: he shows that choices need to be made, that there isn't an unconditional best choice, but that the best choice is dependent upon circumstances (he tries to give insight in the circumstances) and that the worst is not to choose (consistently).
For instance: when one conquers a city, one can subject it's inhabitants by being making them love you, or fear you. Which one chooses is also dependent on whether you attack a new city, or a city previously under your control, if one wants to make an example out of them (and what kind), etc. Most important however is that one must choice between making your subjects love you or hate you (you can't torture a person and then try to win his love).
Secondly, it is worth reading Machiavelli because of his literary abilities. He writes with charm, ease and lack of difficult words, he gives interesting and innovative illustrations, he has written two books that are real pageturners but that also give a new and deeper insight in society (so new that their books are still read today, and not just by literary scholars).

The general applicability of the principal used above, can be seen at relations (most couples stay together because of love, but some because they fear retribution by their partner), at parent/child level (parents either making their children obey because of fear of punishment, or by giving them a sense of responsibility and trust), at companies (a manager can motivate employees by either making them fear for losing their jobs, or by making them share company ideals and values) and at governmental level (Saddam ruled Iraq by fear, while a real democracy must be run by love - or at least lack of fear - for their leader).
At all the previous examples one can see that both situations can work, but the greatest mistake is not to make a consistent choice. It would be as great a mistake for Osama Bin Laden to try and win American love for the Islam by sending planes in the Twin Towers, as for Bush to try and win Iraqi love for democracy and justice by making a policy out of torturing unconvicted Iraqi's (and violating other civil rights). (Hopefully there will be an inquiry that will convince Iraqi's that the torture in the Abu Graib prison wasn't government policy, so that the faith in America, democracy and justice will be restored).

Another Machiavelli. Different from the often known one........2001-03-17

No one who wants to have a fair outlook of the whole political reflexions of Machiavelli, might get it without reading "Discourses.." (Discorsi...). There the reader will find another kind of Machiavelli. Not The Prince's, but another thinker. Deeper and broader, the main topic rather than how to get the power (as along The Prince), is now how to stabilize it. Livy's work is just a motive for Machiavelli's analizes. So, the frequent reference to ancient Greek or Roman history, serves as comparative model regarding the actual Italian and the lager European exuberant political universe. Instead the prince needed to unify Italy and set it free from foreing powers, the central figure is a republic capable to keep liberty alive and a "virtuosa" social life, in terms of participation in the power exercise. Most of the conclusions keep still today a wise validity. That's why after "Discourses..." (albeit it seems The Prince was written in the middle of the former's one composition years) one can talk rightly about a "republican" Machiavelli. If he was not father, at least he was uncle (a bright one) of the since many years called "protective republicanism". In few words: the book put in evidence his very scope and stature. Doubtless, "Discourses..." show us another kind of Machiavelli. Different from the often known one. But still more, different than the ignored one (although ignorance never has been and impediment for many people to speak improperly about "Machiavelli", "machiavellism" and "machiavellic".)

A passionate testament to a highly held ideal!.......1999-11-05

The Romans believed that they had reached the pinnacle of development & the success of their Empire at its height certainly testified to that view. However, Machiavelli points out the strengths & weaknesses of their Political, Moral & Philosophical stance, stating where these pillars of their society shifted & how they contributed to its demise.

Discourses on Livy (Oxford World's Classics)

Average customer rating:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy

Discourses on Livy (Oxford World's Classics)
Niccolo Machiavelli
Manufacturer: Oxford University Press, USA
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

Rome | Ancient | History | Subjects | Books

Classics | General | Literature & Fiction | Subjects | Books

Italian | World Literature | Literature & Fiction | Subjects | Books

General | Drama | Literature & Fiction | Subjects | Books

Political | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

History & Theory | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

ASIN: 0192804731

Book Description

IDiscourses on Livy (1531) is as essential to an understanding of Machiavelli as his famous treatise, The Prince. Equally controversial, it reveals his fundamental preference for a republican state. Comparing the practice of the ancient Romans with that of his contemporaries provided Machiavelli with a consistent point of view in all his works. Machiavelli's close analysis of Livy's history of Rome led him to advance his most original and outspoken view of politics - the belief that a healthy body politic was characterized by social friction and conflict rather than by rigid stability. His discussion of conspiracies in Discourses on Livy is one of the most sophisticated treatments of archetypal political upheaval every written. In an age of increasing political absolutism, Machiavelli's theories became a dangerous ideology. This new translation is richly annotated, providing the contemporary reader with sufficient historical, linguistic, and political information to understand and interpret the revolutionary affirmations Machiavelli made, based on the historical evidence he found in Livy.

Customer Reviews:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Average customer rating:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy
Machiavelli's best
An essential tome on gaining and wielding political power.

The Prince and The Discourses
Niccolo Machiavelli
Manufacturer: McGraw-Hill Humanities/Social Sciences/Languages
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

Literary | General | Literature & Fiction | Subjects | Books

Political | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

General | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

History & Theory | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

All 4-for-3 Deals | 4-for-3 Books Store | Stores | Books

All Titles | Qualifying Textbooks - Fall 2007 | Stores | Books

Literature & Fiction | Qualifying Textbooks - Fall 2007 | Stores | Books

Nonfiction | Qualifying Textbooks - Fall 2007 | Stores | Books
Similar Items:

ASIN: 0075535777

Book Description

Translated by Luigi Ricci, Revised by E.R.P. Vincent, Introduction by Max Lerner

Customer Reviews:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Machiavelli's best.......2005-10-07

In the course of my political science training, I studied at great length the modern idea of realpolitik. In that study I came to realise that it was somewhat incomplete, without the companionship of 'The Prince', by Niccolo Machiavelli, a Florentine governmental official in the late fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries. 'The Prince' is an oft quoted, oft mis-quoted work, used as the philosophical underpinning for much of what is considered both pragmatic and wrong in politics today. To describe someone as being Machiavellian is to attribute to the person ruthless ambition, craftiness and merciless political tactics. Being believed to be Machiavellian is generally politically incorrect. Being Machiavellian, alas, can often be politically expedient.

Machiavelli based his work in 'The Prince' upon his basic understanding of human nature. He held that people are motivated by fear and envy, by novelty, by desire for wealth, power and security, and by a hatred of restriction. In the Italy in which he was writing, democracy was an un-implemented Greek philosophical idea, not a political structure with a history of success; thus, one person's power usually involved the limitation of another person's power in an autocratic way.

Machiavelli did not see this as a permanent or natural state of being -- in fact, he felt that, during his age, human nature had been corrupted and reduced from a loftier nobility achieved during the golden ages of Greece and Rome. He decided that it was the corrupting influence of Christianity that had reduced human nature, by its exaltation of meekness, humility, and otherworldliness.

Machiavelli has a great admiration for the possible and potential, but finds himself inexorably drawn to the practical, dealing with situations as they are, thus becoming an early champion of realpolitik carried forward into this century by the likes of Kissinger, Thatcher, Nixon, and countless others. One of the innovations of Machiavelli's thought was the recognition that the prince, the leader of the city/state/empire/etc., was nonetheless a human being, and subject to all the human limitations and desires with which all contend.

Because the average prince (like the average person) is likely to be focussed upon his own interests, a prince's private interests are generally in opposition to those of his subjects. Fortunate is the kingdom ruled by a virtuous prince, virtue here not defined by Christian or religious tenets, but rather the civic virtue of being able to pursue his own interests without conflicting those of his subjects.

Virtue is that which increases power; vice is that which decreases power. These follow Machiavelli's assumptions about human nature. Machiavelli rejected the Platonic idea of a division between what a prince does and what a prince ought to do. The two principle instruments of the prince are force and propaganda, and the prince, in order to increase power (virtue) ought to employ force completely and ruthlessly, and propaganda wisely, backed up by force. Of course, for Machiavelli, the chief propaganda vehicle is that of religion.

Machiavelli has been credited with giving ruthless strategies (the example of a new political ruler killing the deposed ruler and the ruler's family to prevent usurpation and plotting is well known) -- it is hard to enact many in current politics in a literal way, but many of his strategies can still be seen in electioneering at every level, in national and international relations, and even in corporate and family internal 'politics'. In fact, I have found fewer more Machiavellian types than in church politics!

Of course, these people would be considered 'virtuous' in Machiavellian terms -- doing what is necessary to increase power and authority.

Perhaps if Machiavelli had lived a bit later, and been informed by the general rise of science as a rational underpinning to the world, he might have been able to accept less of a degree of randomness in the universe. Perhaps he would have modified his views. Perhaps not -- after all, the realpolitikers of this age are aware of the scientific framework of the universe, and still pursue their courses.

An essential tome on gaining and wielding political power........1999-06-13

"The authentic interpreter of Machiavelli," wrote Lord Acton, "is the whole of later history." Thus, Bill Clinton to his peril, ignored Machiavelli's advice: "Men have less scruple in offending one who makes himself loved than one who makes himself feared." Nearly 500 years ago, Machiavelli set out to teach the lessons of power. And his teachings remain as valid in our day as in his own. Want to size up a ruler's competence? Then "look at the men he has about him." Want help in making hard decisions? Consult your advisors, deliberate privately, and then stick to your decision. It was Machiavelli who first described the fundamental law of public relations: "Everybody sees what you apear to be, few feel what you are." Even those who want nothing to do with executive authority will profit greatly by learning the truth about how such power is actually gained and used. Above all, Machiavelli urges those who must deal with the real world to remain clear-eyed about its dangers: It is necessary for a prince, he warns, to "learn how not to be good," and to sometimes use this knowledge in effective defense against ruthless enemies. This is admittedly strong stuff for many idealistic readers. But those who reject Machiavelli's advice do so either in ignorance of the ways power is actually used, or in a well-intentioned but doomed attempt to create a Utopia populated not by men but angels.

The Sweetness of Power: Machiavelli's Discourses & Guicciardini's Considerations

Average customer rating:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy

The Sweetness of Power: Machiavelli's Discourses & Guicciardini's Considerations
Niccolo Machiavelli , and Francesco Guicciardini
Manufacturer: Northern Illinois Univ Pr
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

Rome | Ancient | History | Subjects | Books

General | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

Modern Renaissance | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

Political | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

General | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

History & Theory | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

All Titles | Qualifying Textbooks - Fall 2007 | Stores | Books
ASIN: 0875802885

Customer Reviews:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Average customer rating:

Discourses on Livy

Manufacturer: Barnes & Noble
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback
ASIN: 0760771731

Discourses on Livy (Dover Value Editions)

Average customer rating:

Discourses on Livy (Dover Value Editions)
Niccolo Machiavelli
Manufacturer: Dover Publications
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

Rome | Ancient | History | Subjects | Books

General | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

Political | Philosophy | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books

History & Theory | Politics | Nonfiction | Subjects | Books
ASIN: 0486461890

Book Description

This influential study contrasts the practices of ancient Rome with those of the author's 16th-century contemporaries. Machiavelli's The Prince offers advice on ruling a kingdom; this treatise explains the structure and benefits of a republic. Topics include establishing a republic's internal structure, conducting warfare, and exhibiting leadership qualities.

Discourses on the first decade of Titus Livius

Average customer rating:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy

Discourses on the first decade of Titus Livius
Niccolò Machiavelli
Manufacturer: K. Paul, Trench & co
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Unknown Binding

Book Description

We should, therefore, be careful how we censure the government of Rome, and should reflect that all the great results effected by that republic, could not have come about without good cause. And if the popular tumults led the creation of the tribunes, they merit all praise; since these magistrates not only gave its due influence to the popular voice in the government, but also acted as the guardians of Roman freedom, as shall be clearly shown in the following Chapter.

Download Description

Customer Reviews:

Father of Modern Political Philosophy.......2006-02-14

Machiavelli's the Prince and other works including reform in Florence Castruccio Castracani on Fortune. Letters ten discourses on Livy, new translations, introductions, and notes

Average customer rating:

Machiavelli's the Prince and other works including reform in Florence Castruccio Castracani on Fortune. Letters ten discourses on Livy, new translations, introductions, and notes
Allan H Gilbert
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Unknown Binding

Books:

Books Index

Books Home

Recommended Books