History: Fiction or Science? (Chronology, No. 1)

Book Description

Recorded history is a finely-woven magic fabric of intricate lies about events predating the sixteenth century. There is not a single piece of evidence that can be reliably and independently traced back earlier than the eleventh century. This book details events that are substantiated by hard facts and logic, and validated by new astronomical research and statistical analysis of ancient sources.

Customer Reviews:

Calculations are only as good as your numbers.......2007-08-03

Yes, we can all agree that mainstream history is nearly 100% BS due to politics, economics, ego, problems with dating techniques, and various conspiracies. Agreed. But, I've been researching the distinct possibility that human history (in terms of civilizations) are much more ancient than we've been told, so coming across this book was very interesting to me. I wondered how Fomenko could be wrong (if at all) because he is very persuasive in his presentations. Then it dawned on me. If at previous times in prehistory, due to the various catastrophies that are well documented (comets, asteroids, planetary disruptions, plasma discharge, pole reversals, etc) the Earth was in a different position in relation to the sun, different tilt on its axis, different orbit, different rotation (in terms of velocity and DIRECTION), and the continents were in different positions, then would this not cause the ancients to see the sky (constellations) differently? In other words, is Fomenko making erronious assumptions about the physics of the Earth in pre-history, which then corrupt his data with regards to dating the relevant astrology? The last event to seriously disrupt our planet occured roughly 3500 years ago, according to other good researchers, so is it possible Fomenko has been confused by this? The vastly different physics of our planet in the not so distant past may explain this confusion, which is not to say the "mainstream" version of history is correct; on the contrary. I am not an expert in these fields, but wanted to see if this idea could spark discussion.

Pants on fire?.......2007-07-19

Will people ever read before spamming? Yes, Jesuits could not rewrite world history alone, they had help. Anyway, Dr Prof Acad A.Fomenko does not point to jesuits as the driving force of world wide history manipulation in published volumes 1,2,3;, actually he barely mentions the poor devils. Check it with 'Search inside' feature, please. China is rarely mentioned either, in fact, Dr Fomenko is completely eurocentric. Right, his theory contradicts all mainstream schools of history, because in their actual state they are all built on blatantly erroneus chronology. You don't need a mysterious cabal (conspiracy) to falsify history, the falsification is its modus operandi. It is inherent to history(ians) to falsify (distort) events, as it is inherent to humans to boast as it is inherent to power (authority) to legimize itself by referrring to glorious past made to its own order. Dr Prof Fomenko and team have identified scores of instances of such manipulation in Russian, European, etc.. history, and delivered valid statistical proof thereof. His own 'reconstruction' is completely another story. Forget c14 as a valid method of dating. W.Libby has initially discovered a brilliant method of INDEPENDENT dating. Too bad, c14 method has become a joke after a forced marrige with dendrochronology with consensual chronological scale inbuilt. Radiocarbon method can't stand blind tests, but is so very productive as a rubberstamp.

Accepted History & Chronology Must Be Changed. .......2007-04-09

There is no doubt that history as most know it is a sham, & institution's version of History both University & Church is fradulent & inaccurate. Everything was established with an agenda, The real "Dark Ages" are now when we have access to incredible amounts of information past authorities & more important 'common folk' didn't have but our institutions & educators are slow to evolve because of what has ignorantly & arrogantly been taught for too long. This is on many subjects not just Chronology.

For anyone to question "Why would a Mathematician have anything credible to say of History?" The answer is from Dr. Fomenko's preface in the book: "It would be worthwhile to remind the reader that in the XVI-XVII century Chronology was considered to be a subdivision of Mathematics." These volumes could possibly be some of the most important works to date & should be read by everyone with an interest in History, especially professors & educators who have a duty to the public. I have read both books & must say that 'Chronology 1' has some very eye opening & revolutionary information. Even if these volumes are part true the implications are profound & opens the doors to further investigations & questions which must be done. I speak several different lanquages & must say the logic Dr. Fomenko uses with "inflection" of words & words being read from left to right in one region & right to left in another then written backwards, the removal of vowels & get down to basics of words, or different cities & locations having the same name etc. is correct. Vowel usage has always been optional & varied, actually complicating linquistics & study. The first thing one has to understand is that words never had a fixed spelling in history like we do now, the spelling of words was mutable & regional, as well as names & titles of people were vast, varied & changed, NOTHING WAS FIXED or understood linear. Matters of Life & Death as well as financial profiteering yesterday & today were & are made with ignorant, illogical & conspiratorial views of history & reality, it's time people get closer to the Truth & society collectively grow up.

Very Interesting.......2007-03-07

It is a good proposal and I believe it will mature into something even better in the future. I think it deserves to be read.

History as Science Fiction.......2007-01-10

Anatoly Fomenko has written a very intriguing book, full of pictures, charts, and computer 'proof' of his thesis: backwards of AD900 we don't really know what happened or when. Between AD900 and AD1600 there is more certainty, but there is still a lot of fuzzy ground, and things don't get reliable until we get past the 1600's where the printing press made it very difficult for the perpetrators of this timeline manipulation to change anything that had been committed to print. The Dark Ages did not happen. Books were burned for a reason. One organization has doubled the actual length of its existence by expanding the real chronology. Read why.

I had always wondered why Christ died about AD33 and yet men waited until the 11th century to form the Knights Templar, the Cathars, etc and go after the Holy Land by force. Why the 1000 year gap? Turns out there wasn't more than a 10-12 year gap and he proves it using astronomy. This also implies that the planet is not as old as we have been told, and current Christian and other creationist scientists are already championing that idea without being aware of Fomenko's book. The two groups, creationist scientists and the Russian mathematical analysts corroborate each other. Fascinating.

Of course, all this flies in the face of what we have been told traditionally is the 'proper' chronology of western civilization, and most readers will experience 'cognitive dissonance' in reading this book. It means that our history going backwards from AD1600 becomes progressively more incorrect and unreliable until it cannot be trusted at all... in the space of 700-800 years.

Naturally, the curious, open-minded reader will want to know WHO did this, WHY, and did any of the events we think of as really ancient ever happen?
Dr. Fomenko is a respected scientist/mathematician at Moscow State University who has already answered these questions to the satisfaction of his initially skeptical colleagues. Most of them are now believers, a few still refuse to believe (the usual diehards), and of course the western press has ignored Fomenko's work -- for obvious reasons when you read the book. The ones who perpetrated this chronology ruse have a lot to answer for. They are still with us. That's why this book is a well-kept secret.

I gave the book a 4-star rating because I was unable to check out some of his claims; those I checked were as he said. But if even 1/3 of his claims are true, this punches a big hole in what we think is our history, the meaning of western civilization, our educational process (for repeating the ruse as gospel), and the trustworthiness of the organization that perpetrated this ruse, well-intentioned or not.

This book relates to current research into a Young Earth paradigm, to John Keel's discoveries about our planet, and Fr Malachi Martin's insights (in his now out-of-print books). We are indeed sheep who are manipulated and kept ignorant -- for a reason. While knowing what these men have to say may be the "booby prize" (as in: 'what can you do with this knowledge?'), it will provide interesting reading. Didn't someone say: "...and the Truth will set you free."?? For you to judge if this book contains the truth.

Aeschylus I: Oresteia (The Complete Greek Tragedies)

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Note on transation
aeschylus I
The Greatest of Greek Tragedy
The Oresteia Trilogy
Perhaps the best English 'Oresteia'

Aeschylus I: Oresteia (The Complete Greek Tragedies)
Aeschylus
Manufacturer: University Of Chicago Press
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0226307786

Book Description

"These authoritative translations consign all other complete collections to the wastebasket."—Robert Brustein, The New Republic

"This is it. No qualifications. Go out and buy it everybody."—Kenneth Rexroth, The Nation

"The translations deliberately avoid the highly wrought and affectedly poetic; their idiom is contemporary....They have life and speed and suppleness of phrase."—Times Education Supplement

"These translations belong to our time. A keen poetic sensibility repeatedly quickens them; and without this inner fire the most academically flawless rendering is dead."—Warren D. Anderson, American Oxonian

"The critical commentaries and the versions themselves...are fresh, unpretentious, above all, functional."—Commonweal

"Grene is one of the great translators."—Conor Cruise O'Brien, London Sunday Times

"Richmond Lattimore is that rara avis in our age, the classical scholar who is at the same time an accomplished poet."—Dudley Fitts, New York Times Book Review

Customer Reviews:

Note on transation.......2006-08-31

I have read a few things by Lattimore, and while he is touted as the most accurate translator of Greek literature, I find him increadibly difficult to read. His sentences sometimes make no sense at all.
English is a language that depends upon syntax and the order of words in a sentence; Greek is not this way, it is a language with myriad declensions and conjugations, effectively allowing its poets to manipulate a sentence's word order.
Lattimore may simply be too accurate to the Greek originals, because the word order--translated so precisely--simply does not fit well in the English.
I recommend Fagles, who is an amazing translator; and while he is accurate, he also understands the limitations of translating the Greek to English. His sentences are fluid and capture the life of the translation. For Aeschylus, I also recommend Philip Vellacott. Check out Fagles, then check out Vellacott. But please forego the Lattimore translations, unless you really want to understand just the sort of impact a bad translation can have.

aeschylus I.......2005-09-30

the book is pretty good and thorough too. this is a good version to get.

The Greatest of Greek Tragedy.......2004-07-09

Aeschylus I (the Oresteia) probably best epitomized Greek tragedy. This compelling trilogy told the stories of endless cycles of violence in the House of Atreus that stretched across generations and only ended when peace and harmony took its place.

In "Agamemnon", the king had just returned from Troy when he is murdered in his bath by his wife and lover. Aegisthus, the son of Thyestes, sought revenge for his father, whom his brother, Atreus, killed two of his sons and fed him to Thyestes. Aegisthus, the surviving son returned to Argos to marry the queen after Agamenon left for Troy. This would make Aegisthus the ruler of Argos. Clytemnestra agreed to this because she hated her husband for sacrificing their oldest daughter, Iphegenia, to appease Artemis.

After Agamenon's death Orestes, only a child at the time, received a decree from the oracle to kill his mother to take revenge on behalf of his father. This is the theme of the "Libation Bearers." But when Orestes kills his mother it unleashes the Furies, primordial goddesses, who avenge Clytemnestra.

In the third play, "The Eumenides" Orestes is put on trial by Athene and is acquitted of the murder of his mother but the Furies are not satisfied. Only a peace-making offer from the goddess to the Furies ended the endless avenging approaches to justice.

The Oresteia centered on the concept of justice. How should a wrong be punished? What Aeschylus pointed out in his plays was that there were always two sides to every story. But it seemed man's fate to only see one side. Neither Orestes nor his sister, Electra, could see the anguish their mother experienced. They could not understand how she could slay their father because they saw no justification for such a brutal act. It was the same argument the Furies made to Athene when they concluded that the slaying of a mother by her son could not be justified. Yet, each time justice was meted out a new need for justice was its outgrowth.

We are faced today with issues much the same as the characters in Aeschylus' plays faced. Is an "eye for an eye" really a valid form of justice. In our own look at terrorism today could Greek tragedy point the way out of the endless cycles of violence?

The Oresteia Trilogy.......2003-09-11

Aeschylus's Oresteia Trilogy is a wonderful story and great to read. It explains the greek life and life styles that were brought about thousands of years ago during the time of the greek god's and the days of almighty Zeus. Aeschylus brigns about a storyline that will keep you wanting to read until the very end. This is a great story and for all ages to be enchanted by!

Perhaps the best English 'Oresteia'.......2002-07-22

All of the Grene/Lattimore translations I've read have been excellent, but this edition of the Oresteia stands out. Lattimore renders the chori of 'Agamemnon' so hauntingly that they hardly seem translated. The first chorus in particular, with its long sections punctuated by the refrain, "Sing sorrow, sorrow: but good win out in the end" is the best I've ever seen. It makes me shiver.

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Customer Reviews:

A GREAT greak dramatist but equal to the others.......2006-04-10

Sophocles is really one of the Greatest dramatists of all time, but equal to the others since he doesn't have the psychological penetration of Euripides

Translations.......2006-03-20

Researching translations is never an easy task, and in this case, where you'll have to search on Amazon for the title and the translator to find what you want, it's particularly difficult.

Here's what I've found by comparing several editions:

1. David Grene translation: Seems to be accurate, yet not unwieldy as such. My pick. Language is used precisely, but not to the point where it's barely in English.

2. Fitts/Fitzgerald translation: Excellent as well, though a little less smooth than the Grene one. Certainly not a bad pick.

3. Fagles translation: Beautiful. Not accurate. If you are looking for the smoothest English version, there's no doubt that this is it. That said, because he is looser with the translation, some ideas might be lost. For instance, in Antigone, in the beginning, Antigone discusses how law compels her to bury her brother despite Creon's edict. In Fagles, the "law" concept is lost in "military honors" when discussing the burial of Eteocles. This whole notion of obeying positive law or natural law is very important, but you wouldn't know it from Fagles. In Grene, for example, it is translated to "lawful rites."

4. Gibbons and Segal: Looks great, but right now the book has only Antigone (and not the rest of the trilogy) and costs almost 3x as much. I'll pass. But, from a cursory review, I'm impressed with their work.

5. MacDonald: This edition received some good write-ups, but I wasn't able to do a direct passage-to-passage comparison.

6. Woodruff: NO, NO, NO. Just NO. It's so colloquial it makes me gag. Very accessible, but the modernization of the language is just so extreme as to make it almost laughable. You don't get any sense of the power of language in the play. You just get the story. If you want this to be an easy read, then get Fagles, not this.

7. Kitto: Looks good, though not particularly compelling over either Grene or Fitzgerald (or Gibbons if I wanted to pay so much more).

8. Roche: Practically unreadable the English is so convoluted. Might be the most literal translation, but what's the point unless you are learning Greek and want such a direct translation.

9. Taylor: Way too wordy. Might be more literal, but again, why?

Hope this all helps. Translations can make or break the accessibility of literature. Pick wisely.

Unalterable Course.......2004-07-18

I read the story of Oedipus in high school and several times since. While I find the twists of the story, especially the riddle of the Sphinx fascinating. (A very original puzzle.) I also found it a litte disturbing. I've never cared for the idea that a person's destiny is fixed and unavoidable.
The fact that the steps Oedipus took to foil the prophecy, actually placed him on the direct path to fulfilling it was scary. It makes one wonder: Do we really have control over our lives, or are we, as Shakespear put it, actors in someone's grand play?
It is a very sad and tragic story. Oedipus was hopelessly caught in a terrible snare. Definitely NOT upbeat. However,in my opinion, any story that can create positive thought and conversation on the inner workings of life is worth reading.

Good For an Introduction to Sophocles.......2002-11-25

The Lattimore/Grene translations of Sophocles balance ease of reading with closeness to the original Greek text nicely. Hugh-Lloyd Jones's translation, which can be found in the Loeb edition of Sophocles's tragedies, is unquestionably superior at rendering the original Greek text, but it can come across as archaic and confusing to high school students or those unversed in Greek literature. Lattimore and Grene, unlike many modern translators, DO feel that they owe more to their readers than the loosest gist of the original text, and they deliver it.
All that said, I would advise readers to be cautious of these translations for the following reasons. First, the plays are presented in the chronological order according to the myths they portray - not in the order in which Sophocles wrote them. In other words, even though Antigone was one of the first plays Sophocles produced and Oedipus at Colonus was produced posthumously, they are presented in order of their dramatic events. This means that they are very likely translated without regard for any evolution of Sophocles's thought or any implicit commentary the poet might have made upon the works of his own youth.
Second, in his introduction, Grene states that he sees in Oedipus at Colonus Sophocles's clumsy attempt to cover over the inconsistencies of his Theban Cycle. While this is certainly not all Grene sees in Oedipus at Colonus, the judgement of anyone who takes so irreverent and shallow a view of the last work of the most technically savvy tragedian of the classic age must be called into question.
In summary: Buy this book, read it, enjoy it, but if you're going to write an important paper on Sophocles, look at his work in the Greek, or at least in the Lloyd-Jones translation of the Loeb edition.

Too Many Words! Taylor's Translation of Sophocles' Antigone.......2002-07-03

In the movie, "Amadeus," the Austrian emperor avers that Mozart's new opera has "too many notes." The composer, on the contrary, thinks the number just right, as does even his envious rival, Salieri. The defect lay in the emperor's taste, not in the composer's art.

In Don Taylor's translation of "Antigone," published in the book, Sophocles, The Theban Plays, there are indeed too many notes, i.e., words. The defect does not lie in the art of Sophocles, nor in the requirements of translation. Taylor wrote with a contract for television performance already in hand. He fashions lines that are easy for actors to play and for audiences to understand. Having translated a character's thought, he often expands, supplements or restates the material. Thus, the audience is given a second and third bite at the apple of understanding. But this is more like a college lecturer who fears that his students won't get the point, than like Sophocles, who is famous for a clear, solid, succinct style.

Sophocles peppers his scenes, usually dialogues between two persons, with extended series of one-line "zingers," which the characters alternately thrust and counterthrust. The power and excitement of the exchanges lie in economy and pointedness of expression. To illustrate, here is a segment from the first scene between Creon and the soldier who tells him that Polynices' body has been partly buried. The first translation is by Dudley Fitts and Robert Fitzgerald, available in their book, The Oedipus Cycle, and also in Greek Plays in Modern Translation, both listed on Amazon.com. The second translation is Taylor's.

SENTRY: King, may I speak?
CREON: Your very voice distresses me.
SENTRY: Are you sure that it is my voice and not your conscience?
CREON: By God, he wants to analyse me now!
SENTRY: It is not what I say, but what has been done, that hurts you.
CREON: You talk too much.
SENTRY: Maybe, but I've done nothing.
CREON: Sold your soul for some silver: that's all you've done.
SENTRY: How dreadful it is when the right judge judges wrong.

SOLDIER: Am I allowed to speak, sir?
CREON: No!
Why should you speak? Every word you say
Is painful to me.
SOLDIER: Well, it can't be earache,
Can it sir, not what I said!
It must stick in your gullet. Or further down
Maybe, a sort of pain in your conscience.
CREON: Do you dare to answer me back: and make jokes
About my conscience?
SOLDIER: Me sir? No sir!
I might give you earache; I can see that.
I talk too much, always have done.
But the other pain, the heartburn as it were,
It's the criminal causing that sir, not me.
CREON: You're not short of a quick answer, either.
SOLDIER: Maybe not. But I didn't bury the body.
Not guilty to that sir.
CREON: But maybe guilty
Of selling your eyes for money, eh sentry,
Of looking the other way for cash?
SOLDIER: I think it's a shame sir, that an intelligent man
And as well educated as you are
Should miss the point so completely.

The Fitts/Fitzgerald translation has 9 lines and 86 words; compared to Taylor's 24 and 160. Sophocles had used 9 lines and only 69 words. All the one-liner segments, occurring in almost every scene, undergo a similar transformation at Taylor's hand. But they are not alone. The same translating style appears in the major speeches of the play. Listen to part of the condemnation of Creon by the prophet, Teiresias, from Taylor first this time, then from Fitts/Fitzgerald.

TEIRESIAS: Listen Creon. This is the truth!
Before many more days, before the sun has risen
- Well, shall we say a few more times -
You will have made your payment, corpse
For corpse, with a child of your own blood.
You have buried the one still living: the woman
Who moves and breathes, you have given to the grave:
And the dead man you have left, unwashed,
Unwept, and without the common courtesy
Of a decent covering of earth. So that both
Have been wronged, and the gods of the underworld,
To whom the body justly belongs,
Are denied it, and are insulted. Such matters
Are not for you to judge. You usurp
Ancient rights which even the gods
Themselves don't dare to question, powers
Which are not in the prerogative of kings.
Even now, implacable avengers
Are on their way, the Furies, who rise up
From Hell and swoop down from Heaven,
Fix their hooks into those who commit crimes,
And will not let go. The suffering
You inflicted upon others, will be inflicted
Upon you, you will suffer, as they did.
Have I been bribed, do you think? Am I speaking
For money now? Before very long,
Yes, it will be soon, there will be screaming
And bitter tears and hysterical crying
In this house. Men, as well as women.

TEIRESIAS: Then take this, and take it to heart!
The time is not far off when you shall pay back
Corpse for corpse, flesh of your own flesh.

You have thrust the child of this world into living night,
You have kept from the gods below the child that is theirs:
The one in a grave before her death, the other,
Dead, denied the grave. This is your crime:
And the Furies and the dark gods of Hell
Are swift with terrible punishment for you.
Do you want to buy me now, Creon? Not many days,
And your house will be full of men and women weeping.

Box score, lines and words. Taylor 29:223. Fitts/Fitzgerald 11:106. Sophocles 16:94.

Book Description

This book is a study of ancient views about "moral luck." It examines the fundamental ethical problem that many of the valued constituents of a well-lived life are vulnerable to factors outside a person's control, and asks how this affects our appraisal of persons and their lives. The Greeks made a profound contribution to these questions, yet neither the problems nor the Greek views of them have received the attention they deserve. This updated edition contains a new preface.

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Customer Reviews:

What were they reading?.......2001-03-27

In this book, Ms. Nussbaum takes on one of the most challenging and heart-rending questions raised by the ancient poets and philosophers: what is the relationship between goodness (good character, right action) and having a good life (happiness, human flourishing)?

With the tragedians, and against some of the philosophers (notably Plato), Ms. Nussbaum considers the possibility that right action and right thinking cannot protect us from the pain of life's contingencies, and (much worse) that sheer bad luck can blight character itself.

Ms. Nussbaum addresses the issues and the texts with respect for their subtlety, with imaginative insight, and with her characteristic regard for reason. Every time she discusses a text, I come away knowing more about that text--and more about life.

"Comforting platitudes" and "sloppy" exegesis? No. Not hardly.

A different read.......2001-01-31

There are two ways one might approach the Fragility of Goodness. One might approach the text in search of careful exegesis of classical texts. If this is one's aim, one will probably be disappointed with what Nussbaum provides in this book. On the other hand, one might approach the text in search of a thought-provoking discussion of important issues in moral and political philosophy. If the latter is one's concern, then Nussbaum's work is rich, exciting and well worth reading.

Nussbaum the sloppy.......2000-09-01

I agree with the reviewer who finds Nussbaum a careless reader. I have found in almost everything of hers I have read that she tends to base long, intricate arguments on small parts of what someone says--parts that aren't representative of their larger point--and distorts and misrepresents those she writes about. She does this whether writing about an ancient author or a contemporary. How she can do this over and over--and do so in high-profile forums--yet retain her great reputation is beyond me. (Come to think of it, shouldn't those who publish her writings have learned by now that they need an army of editors to fix her work?) Those who like comforting platitudes and the veneer of learnedness and scholarship should enjoy her books, but anyone who wants arguments to be sound and to be on sound foundations should be dumbfounded and distressed that someone like her can be so respected in academia.

An affectation of scholarship.......1999-11-22

Martha Nussbaum is a curious case. Her writing bristles withthe apparatus of scholarship and her considerable reputation is basedon the supposition that her sometimes provocative opinions are grounded in careful reading of the classics. As a devoted reader of classical philosophy and literature, I was prepared to accept this -- until I began reading The Fragility of Goodness and discovered that, on the very first page of the book, she attempts to illustrate her thesis by means of a gross misreading of one of Pindar's odes (Nemean 8). (I don't have the space here, or the time, to explain in detail why hers is a misreading, but it is sufficiently gross that anyone who reads the entire ode, instead of reading only the three lines she quotes, should readily discern her error.)

Unfortunately, this arbitrary treatment of texts shows up repeatedly in the book, and that, combined with her extraordinary pretentiousness, is the reason for my low rating.

There is no disputing that Nussbaum possesses a forceful intellect, and she has ideas that may be worth thinking about independent of her sources. Just don't rely on her to teach you what Aristotle and Plato thought.

Brilliant, searching, essential........1999-01-11

Anyone interested in Greek philosophy and literature should read this wonderful book. Nussbaum is the only scholar-philosopher working today with an understanding of the complex and challenging ideas of these texts as well as their literary forms and historical contexts. This book, along with Bruno Snell's "The Discovery of the Mind," is required reading for any student of Plato, Aristotle, and the Greek tragedians (whether they're in a formal academic institution or not).

Dramatic Theory and Criticism: Greeks to Grotowski

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Dramatic Theory and Criticism: Greeks to Grotowski
Bernard F. Dukore
Manufacturer: Harcourt
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ASIN: 0030911524

The Oresteia: Agamemnon; The Libation Bearers; The Eumenides (Penguin Classics)

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The plays are great: so is the introduction
Required reading
An excellent trilogy
even better the second time around
How do you say a classic is way overated?

The Oresteia: Agamemnon; The Libation Bearers; The Eumenides (Penguin Classics)
Aeschylus
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140443339

Customer Reviews:

The plays are great: so is the introduction.......2007-06-23

I could not disagree more with the reviewer who urged readers of this book to "ignore the experts", skip the introduction, and go right to the plays. Many introductions are unnecessary - even boring. However, this introductory essay by translator Robert Fagles & his collaborator, W.B. Stanford, titled "The Serpent and The Eagle", enhances this translation of The Oresteia trilogy. It can be considered a stand-alone piece, in fact, at 97 pages.

By all means, do not allow the introduction to keep you from reading the plays - although, if you have the same response that I did, after reading this masterful and informative essay, you will be more than eager to continue with the plays. Robert Fagles is considered among the very best translators of classical literature to English. Anything he has to say about the work is worth reading.

If you must, read the introductory essay after reading the plays. These translations are generally considered to be a modern triumph in presenting the profound depths of Greek drama - you would be cheating yourself to not read what the translators themselves have to say about the work.

Required reading.......2007-05-24

i first came across these stories when I was 14, i read them again in collage and have read them ever since. the Oresteia is essential literature, if nothing else because of the references it has generated over all of western Literature some examples being Dune by frank Herbert and Orestes by Perfect Circle. also because it is a really intresting study of family dynamics. i also recomend reading it BEFORE it is assigned to you. develop your own ideas to present to a class, get your own idea of it in your mind. I bought this paritcular translation because it was the one i was familar with an a decent one.

An excellent trilogy.......2007-04-23

Aeschylus (525-456 BC) is the father of Greek tragedies (one legend reports that Dionysus himself commanded Aeschylus to write them). Of the seventy tragedies that he wrote, only seven have survived to the present day. These three plays form the most complete tetralogy that we have (a tetralogy contained three tragedies and one satyr play - a semi-religious, semi-mocking performance that acted as a postlude to the tragic trilogy) - only the satyr play is missing.

In Agamemnon, the Greek king returns from the Trojan War, with his prize of the Trojan prophetess Cassandra. Cassandra knows that Agamemnon's wife, Clytemnestra, will kill them, but she is fated to be not be believed. And so, the deed is done.

In The Libation Bearers, Clytemnestra has a nightmare that she gave birth to a snake, and so she sends her daughter Electra to Agamemnon's grave to pour out a libation. However, Electra meets her brother, Orestes, and the two plot revenge upon their mother, and her loved. And so, murder begets murder.

In The Eumenides, Orestes is fleeing the Furies, who are pursuing him for murdering his mother. Orestes flees to Apollo, who sends him on to Athens, to be judged by Athena herself.

This is an excellent trilogy. Even though it is over 2,000 years old, it still makes an interesting read. In particular, I enjoyed The Eumenides, with its battle of supernatural beings, and its showcasing of the development of Western jurisprudence. Overall, I found this to be an interesting and informative book, one that I do not hesitate to recommend to everyone.

even better the second time around.......2006-06-23

These are great plays, and this is a beautiful translation.

I think, though, that to really appreciate what Aeschylus accomplished (aided and abetted by Fagles), most modern readers should really read the entire trilogy twice.

When these plays were first performed, the entire audience would have known the story of Agamemnon's fate and Orestes' revenge from the Odyssey, and probably from other sources besides. The interest came from seeing how Aeschylus would reweave the tale - with what turns of phrase, what dramatic revelations, what poetic license, what new ways of glorifying Athens or bemoaning some new turn in Athenian politics.

The best way to replicate that experience is to read the entire trilogy once to see how it unfolds and how it ends, then to read it again for the nuances of language. Aeschylus is subtle, and Fagles brings out this subtlety in this translation: for example, almost every line uttered in the first part of Agamemnon has a double meaning (at least!), even rendered in English.

Not only this, but the dimensions of the tragedy become clearer the second time around. On the first reading, having forgotten much of the story, I found it gripping. On the second reading, I found it heartrending.

Like another reviewer on this site, I recommend skipping the introductory essay and diving right into the plays. Make up your own mind about what all of this means and why it might be important. Then read the essay if you want to see if you agree with it.

How do you say a classic is way overated? .......2006-06-15

Sure the poetry is great,
but these three plays make a small episode in modern terms...
A very slow one at that.
The three plays:
1) Agamemnon: The killing of the returned King and Cassandra the oracle by the wife and the cousin
2) The Libation Bearers: The meeting of Orestes and Electra at the gave and the killing of
the mother and cousin
3) The Eumenides: the trial by Athena of Orestes with Apollo defending
As plays go they are more excess of dialog than action...
many too long and very heavy speeches.
There are too many questions about the natures of these sins and the justice of revenge when men are the top civil authority in the bronze age, so later plays like these that bring in gods as judges were formulated. These plays survived their age to bring us the Greek ideals of justice,
but they fail to keep a modern audience awake!
I'm not impressed by Aeschylus' plays compared to other Greek plays that I've read by Sophocles.

The Three Theban Plays (Penguin Classics)

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Excellent But Not The Best; 4.5 Stars
Translations
Great plays, very good translation, but...
An interesting collection of plays
Great plays, good translation, good introductions

The Three Theban Plays (Penguin Classics)
Sophocles
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 0140444254

Amazon.com

Aristotle called "Oedipus The King," the second-written of the three Theban plays written by Sophocles, the masterpiece of the whole of Greek theater. Today, nearly 2,500 years after Sophocles wrote, scholars and audiences still consider it one of the most powerful dramatic works ever made. Freud sure did. The three plays--"Antigone," "Oedipus the King," and "Oedipus at Colonus"--are not strictly a trilogy, but all are based on the Theban myths that were old even in Sophocles' time. This particular edition was rendered by Robert Fagles, perhaps the best translator of the Greek classics into English.

Customer Reviews:

Excellent But Not The Best; 4.5 Stars.......2006-04-15

This is a fine translation of Sophocles' great Oedipus trilogy. Fagles has rendered these plays into fluent English with a fine feel for how to vary the nature of the language between characters and scenes. That said, I still prefer the older Fitts/Fitzgerald translations, which are a model of restrained but powerful poetic expression. I think Fagles' translations of Homer are the finest available but he has not done quite as well with these plays. A very nice feature of this edition are the fine introductions to the plays and a short discussion of the history of the texts.

Translations.......2006-03-20

Great plays, very good translation, but..........2005-02-19

There's not much to say about these plays that hasn't been said over the last 2,500 years except, read them. More than once. More than twice.

As to the Fagles translation, as with most of his translations it is very smooth, almost lyrical, quite appealing. But he takes more liberties than I really like a translator to take. You are not reading as close as possible a rendition of what Sophocles actually wrote; rather, Fagles is somewhere between translation and retelling. For the average reader this may be fine, but don't think you're getting pure Sophocles, or as pure as is possible with a translation.

If all you want is an enjoyable read that is reasonably close to what Sophocles wrote, Fagles is fine. For more scholarly accuracy, try the translations by Greene, Fitzgerald, or Wyckoff. For a very good set of alternate translations which have as much fluidity as Fagles and a bit more faithfulness to the original, try the Fitts/Fitzgerald translations.

One benefit to the Fagles translation is the introductions by Knox, which are excellent (nearly as good as his superb introduction to Fagles' Odyssey).

One detriment, for me, is that the volume presents the plays in the order they were written, not in the order of the (relatively) unified story which they present. (It's sort of like reading Shakespeare's Henry VI plays before his Henry IV and V plays; that's the order he wrote them in, but the Henry V and VI plays make more sense if you've read the Henry IV plays first.) I accept that Sophocles didn't write these as a trilogy (as many Greek play sets were), but still, I think for the reader previously unfamiliar with them or their history and simply reading them in the order presented (perhaps a reader who doesn't start by reading all the introductions, but plunges straight into the plays), I think it's a bad decision.

All in all, a fine choice of a translation, but not the only fine choice. But definitely read these plays, choosing whatever translation you prefer (unless, of course, you can read them in the original Greek!)

An interesting collection of plays.......2004-12-03

This collection of three plays is very good. Robert Fagles uses quite a bit of freedom in translation, but it is still good. The first play is Antigone. This is about a girl who buries her brother against the command of the king. Even though she is engaged to the king's son, he sentences her to death.
The second play is Oedipus the King. In this drama we learn about Antigone's father, Oedipus. This is the first detective story. Oedipus is out to find the man bringing a curse on Thebes, only to discover he is the curse.
The third play is Oedipus at Colonus. This play is about Oedipus after his exile. One can tell that this play was written at a different time by Sophocles because the characters have changed very much.
For me, one of the most fascinating things about all these novels is the way they provide us to look at the past. By looking at the values held by the people in these plays, we learn about the cultural beliefs of the ancient Greeks. In addition, they really are good drama, and Fagles translation is very easy to read.

Great plays, good translation, good introductions.......2004-11-16

Sophocles's plays, of course, need no comment. But what is important to know about this book (or its rivals) is the quality of the translation and the introductory essays.

Although I have not read the original Greek text and cannot judge its accuracy, Fagles's translation is a pleasure to read in English. I compared this volume with many others and found this to be my favorite translation. (Penguin Classics can usually be trusted for good, readable translations.)

Knox's essays were similarly good. He wrote one general introduction to Greek theater, and then one introduction for each play. The essays help put the plays in context, which is crucial to understanding, by explaining the salient facts of Greek drama, the mythological background of the Oedipus story, and whatever controversy the plays might have engendered. I especially enjoyed Knox's introduction to Oedipus Rex, which is worth reading by itself (assuming you've already read the play at some point).

In summary, this is the edition to buy. But be careful--there are TWO Penguin Classics editions, and only one has the Fagles translations and Knox essays.

Average customer rating:

Listening to Homer
Sir Derek Jacobi's masterful reading is pure pleasure
Abridged, but Excellent - and great fun, too
Too Much is Cut
Abridging Homer. Why?

The Iliad
Homer
Manufacturer: Highbridge Audio
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: 0143059289

Book Description

This masterful new verse translation of Homer's classic story of the Trojan War has been hailed by critics as "an astonishing performance" and "a remarkable tour de force." Robert Fagles, chairman of the Department of Comparative Literature at Princeton University, brings the energy of contemporary language of this 2,700-year-old epic, while maintaining the drive and metric music of Homer's poetry, as well as the impact and nuance of Homer's mesmerizing repeated phrases. As a scholar, Fagles praises Homer's directness and simplicity, the breadth of his imagination, and the power of his song. As a translator, he brilliantly captures these very qualities—which makes this Iliad not only a superb literary work, but a tremendous listening experience.

Customer Reviews:

Listening to Homer.......2007-08-26

Robert Fagles translation of The Iliad is amazing. I really enjoyed Sir Derek Jacobi's reading presented here on these disks. My only problem with this product is that the book has been abridged. I wanted to purchase this item because I feel that it's important to HEAR the words of Homer spoken. This epic poem has been passed down through the generations by word of mouth, so it's best to HEAR the words spoken. I suggest listening to the audio recordings while reading the book. These audio recordings are wonderful but there's way too much missing. Penguin Books should of shown Robert Fagles translation (and Homer) more respect.

The second chapter for instance is missing the last section often called, "the catalogue of ships." This is the part of the story where Homer lists all the Argenian armies which participated in the Trojan conflict. Okay, sure - it's sort of a boring section of the story. Still, it's an important part of the book! Possibly, one of the most historically significant sections of the story. This entire section has been cut from the audiotapes! The list of ships, which goes on and on, illustrates the vast army which was gathered by Agamemnon for the battle. You need to illustrate the overwhelming force the Trojans were facing to fully comprehend the battle.

Anyway, I enjoyed the recording, but I just wish that Penguin Books would have presented an option to purchase an unabridged version of Robert Fagles translation. Be prepared to read the parts of the book not covered by the tapes. You should also rent some dvd documentaries on the Trojan War. It really helps flesh out the impact of the poem. Homer rocks!

Sir Derek Jacobi's masterful reading is pure pleasure.......2007-07-01

I recall asking a bookseller years ago if he had the Jacobi audio narration of The Iliad in his store. His response, "We don't do audio. Bookstores are for books." Fine and dandy. But The Iliad was an oral poem to begin with, and for those who want to hear it, regardless of having read it or not, there is no better place to start. Yes, it is abridged, but the choice of abridgement seems sensible, though I would have preferred the poem in its entirety. Another reviewer refers to Jacobi, a mentor of Kenneth Branaugh, as the greatest living Shakespearean actor. Though there are many fine Shakespearean actors currently performing around the world in dozens of fascinating roles, it is easy to imagine that Jacobi is one of the finest. His reading of Homer's ILIAD is intense and riveting and a must for fans of the poem in English. PS: Check out Jacobi in his most brilliant performance as the lead in I CLAUDIUS (available on DVD and VHS) I, Claudius

N.B. : this Robert Fagles translation/Derek Jacobi narrated audio version is also available on AUDIO CASSETTE The Iliad (Classics on Cassette)

Sir Ian McKellen's very fine narration of Fagles' translation of The Odyssey in an unabridged CD The Odyssey by Homer and audio cassette recordings The Odyssey (Penguin Classics)

Sir Derek Jacobi's narration of Allen Mandelbaum's translation of The Odyssey is available in abridged CD or audio cassette versions The Odyssey

The brilliant actor/director/writer/narrator Simon Callow's unabridged reading of Robert Fagle's new translation of Virgil's Aeneid is another must-have for audio classics fans. The Aeneid

Abridged, but Excellent - and great fun, too.......2007-06-14

The Iliad was meant to be heard rather than read. It's a cliche, but it's true. So an audio version of the Iliad can be a great thing; rather than just a secondary version of a published book, it can be in some ways a purer representation of the original work. This recording is an (abridged) reading by Derek Jacobi of Robert Fagles's best-selling 1990 translation. I'll deal with three different aspects of this product separately: the translation, the performance, and the abridgement.

THE TRANSLATION (5 stars):

Judging a translation is a hard thing to do, and a lot of it comes down to personal aesthetic preference. Remember, all translations are paraphrase, and each can capture different facets of an original but none can capture all of it. This is particularly true of poetry, where much of the artistic content of the original is not only in the meaning of the words, but the sound, shape, and rhythm of the words themselves in the original language. What many translations of the Iliad lose, regardless of their literal accuracy, is the feel of Homer's verse - its directness, the concreteness of its language, and above all the headlong momentum of the whole thing. Homer's hexameter verse is propulsive, pulling the hearer (note: not the reader) forward with an unstoppable 15,000-line drumbeat that leaves you breathless. (Well, it leaves me breathless, anyway -- your mileage may vary.) Fagles captures this feeling magnificently in direct, confident, robust English. True, Fagles is not always literally accurate in the translation of specific words or epithets, but he expertly recreates the vigor of the piece. Richmond Lattimore's excellent translation (The Iliad of Homer) is closer to Homer in capturing some of the subtleties of wording, and is rigorous in its fidelity to the text, but the Fagles translation is my favorite for sheer heart-pounding excitement. The warrior spirit of the Iliad comes crashing through this translation undiluted and without apology.

THE PERFORMANCE (4 and a half stars):

Jacobi gives a spirited performance, with a forceful, fiery delivery well-suited to the heroic bombast of the battle scenes and the emotionally-charged clash of strong personalities. Achilles's offended pride, Hector's valiant but headstrong dedication to duty, Agamemnon's arrogance, and Paris's weasly self-serving faux contrition all come through vividly. My only criticisms of Jacobi's performance are these: while well-suited to the larger-than-life elements of the story, Jacobi can occasionally be too bombastic in a few of the more intimate moments. In addition (and this is admittedly a bit of a nitpick), I feel that he disregards the meter a little too much. As I mentioned above, the drumbeat of Homer's verse is a key aspect of its artistic appeal. Fagles chooses a loosely iambic meter which is not intrusive, but imparts a definite rhythm; at times, Jacobi all but ignores this and might as well be reading prose. There's no need for a bouncy Dr. Seuss-style delivery, but a bit more recognition of the rhythmic flow of the English version would suit me better. (This is, of course, a matter of taste.) Ian McKellen's (unabridged!) reading of Fagles's Odyssey translation (The Odyssey by Homer) is a contrast here: McKellen unobtrusively finds the rhythm of each line in a powerful (and a bit more textured) performance. These criticisms are by no means severe -- Jacobi's performance is excellent.

THE ABRIDGEMENT (3 stars):

Yes, as others note, this reading is abridged (approximately half of the text is left out), and a lot is unfortunately lost. When originally released on cassette in the early 1990s, the producers were probably skeptical of the sales potential of a 13-hour recording of an ancient Greek poem, and so hedged their bets with an abridgement. But both the print and recorded versions of Fagles's Iliad were surprising bestsellers. Happily, the publishers did not make the same mistake with Fagles's Odyssey, released in 1996: Ian McKellen's reading of that poem is unabridged (and glorious).

In this recording of the Iliad, most of the key episodes are preserved - for example the initial disagreement between Achilles and Agamemnon, Hector's return to Troy, Patroclus's death, Hector's death, and the final meeting between Achilles and Priam. Others are sadly missing. Some of the excised bits are obvious choices (the catalogue of ships in Book II is mercifully skipped over), but others are harder to bear. The biggest loss for me is the funeral games for Patroclus, but most lovers of the Iliad will find some favorite moment or another gone.

But while the cuts are deep, they are fairly clean. Entire, unbroken blocks of text (ranging from dozens of lines to whole books) are removed en masse, rather than a line here and a line there; there is (thankfully) no resorting to paraphrase or condensing lines. Further, the excisions are well-marked: all words coming from Jacobi's mouth are directly from Fagles's translation; missing sections are bridged with summarizing narration read by a different narrator.

While the cuts are unfortunate, they do not generally detract from the high quality of the listening experience. For those who know the Iliad well, think of this as a terrific "greatest hits" version of the poem. Enjoy the parts that are here, and don't pine too much for the missing bits. You can always go back to the text for those.

J. Van Hoose

Too Much is Cut.......2007-06-14

Where is Book X? One of the most exciting and heroic stories is cut from the reading: the night raid by Odysseus and Diomedes. Although the reading is well done, the absence of so much of the poem destroys the original intent. Pass on this one.
Also, Penguin Press is misleading in that Jakobi is not the sole reader. There is a woman who reads as well. It sounds like this one was pieced together. A shoddy job really.

Abridging Homer. Why?.......2007-06-06

However splendidly Jacobi reads the work, it is still not what the poet (or translator) had in mind. An abridged version isn't worth the time.

History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2 (Chronology)

Average customer rating:

Check and see
Suprise! Suprise!
Prescient St Augustine?
Something of a disappointment
Romulus courts Helen, Paris founds Rome, Moses goes to Troy..

History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2 (Chronology)
Anatoly T Fomenko
Manufacturer: Delamere Resources LLC
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 2913621066

Product Description

`History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2` is the second volume of the most explosive and astounding tractate on history ever written - however, every theory it contains, no matter how unorthodox, is backed by rock solid scientific data. The book is easy and pleasant to read; it is well-illustrated, contains hundreds of charts, graphs and illustrations, copies of ancient manuscripts, and countless facts attesting to the falsity of the chronology used nowadays. You will be amazed to discover: - That the chronology universally accepted today and taken for granted is simply wrong; - That ALL methods of dating of ancient sources and artefacts known today are erroneous or non-exact; - That there is not a single document that could be reliably dated earlier than the XIth century; The Author refers to the Middle Ages as the Antiquity and proves mutual superimposition of the Second and the Third Roman Empire, both of which become identified as the respective kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Furthermore, he asserts that the famous reform of the Occidental Church in the XI century by Pope Gregory Hildebrand was the reflection of the XII century reforms of Byzantine emperor Andronicus who in his turn identifies with Jesus Christ. The Trojan war counted by Homer happened only as late as of the XIII century A.D. and the great poet actually lived in XIV century A.D. No stone in history of Antiquity is left unturned. Literally. This book is the beginning of a major correction to the chronology we live with.

Customer Reviews:

Check and see.......2007-06-21

I don't care what other people say of this book. Those affirmig it's fake, they hadn't ever read it. Or have some special reasons to do so. "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see..." This book won't make you feel comfortable. It'll make you feel free. It'll make you feel you're "not the only one" to feel you'd been lied to for centuries.

Suprise! Suprise!.......2007-03-22

Here is a serie of books which turns "the whole world" upside down. I learned a lot of it and I hope that a new book from A.T. Fomenko will follow very quick. A absolute must for everybody who is interested in history or even a little bit from it.

Prescient St Augustine?.......2006-02-05

We can so far divide the New Chronology into the following three parts:

a) The verifiable theory that proves consensual chronology wrong with the aid of astronomy, statistics and mathematics;

b) The new chronology hypothesis based on a new understanding of known historical facts and the most likely logical explanation of the most obvious inconsistencies inherent in the official version of history;

c) The history conjectures, that is experimental historical reconstructions based on assumptions that the authors believe to make sense in the light of their research and linguistic parallels - void of ironclad factual support to date.

Fomenko's theory complies with the most rigid scientific standards as a whole:

It gives a coherent explanation of what we already know.

- It is consistent: independent lines of inquiry all lead to the same conclusion.

- The predictions it makes are confirmed empirically.

Fomenko goes by the following axioms:

- Chronology is the basis of history;

- Human evolution has always been linear, gradual and irreversible;

- The "cyclic" nature of human civilization is a myth, likewise all the gaps, duplicates, "dark ages" and "renaissances" that we know from consensual history;

- The accumulation of geographical knowledge as reflected in cartography is a gradual and irreversible process;

- The chronological distance between a given manuscript and the events described therein is proportional to the amount of distortions it contains;

- There is no "useless" information in authentic ancient sources.

Why the mainstream historians do not shower mathematician Academician Dr.Prof Fomenko with thanks and laurels?

The Russians:

Because Fomenko asserts that there was no such thing as the Tartar and Mongol invasion followed by three centuries of slavery, providing a formidable body of documental evidence to prove his assertion. The so-called "Tartars and Mongols" were the actual ancestors of the modern Russians, living in a bilingual state with Arabic spoken as freely as Russian. The ancient Russian state was governed by a double structure of civil and military authorities. The hordes were actually professional armies with a tradition of lifelong conscription (the recruitment being the so-called "blood tax"). Their "invasions" were punitive operations against the regions that attempted tax evasion. Fomenko proves that Russian history as we know it today is a blatant forgery concocted by a host of German scientists brought to Russia by the usurper dynasty of the Romanovs, whose ascension to the throne was the result of coup d'état, charged with the mission of making their reign look legitimate. Fomenko proves Ivan the Terrible to be a collation of four rulers, no less. They represented the two rival dynasties - the legitimate rulers and the ambitious upstarts. The winner took it all! Over some 30 years of controversy, Russian historians have made a most remarkable transition - they were initially accusing the young mathematician Fomenko of anticommunist dissident activity and attempts to deface the historical legacy of Soviet Russia; nowadays the middle-aged mathematician is accused of adhering to "pro-communist Russian nationalism" and defacing the proud historical legacy of Great Russia.

The Westerners:

Because Fomenko blows consensual Russian history to smithereens, successfully removing a crucial cornerstone from underneath the otherwise impeccable edifice of World History. Fomenko adds insult to injury, wiping out one by one the Ancient Rome (the foundation of Rome in Italy is dated to the XIV century A. D.), the Ancient Greece and its numerous poleis, which he identifies as the mediaeval crusader settlements on the territory of Greece, and the Ancient Egypt (the pyramids of Giza become dated to the XI-XV century A. D. and identified as the royal cemetery of the Global "Mongolian" Empire, no less). The civilization of the Ancient Egypt is irrefutably dated to the XII-XV century A. D. with the aid of the ancient Egyptian horoscopes cut in stone. He was the first one to decipher and date all such horoscopes, coming up with mediaeval dates in every case. English historians rage at the suggestion that the history of Ancient England was de facto a Byzantine import transplanted to the English soil by the fugitive Byzantine nobility. To reward the English historians who consider themselves the true scribes of World History, the cover of the present book portrays Tintoretto's Jesus Christ crucified on the Big Ben.

The Chinese:

Because Fomenko wipes out the Ancient History of China outright. No such thing. Full point. The compilation of the so-called Ancient Chinese History is reliably datable to the XVII-XVIII century only. It is perfectly recognizable as the Ancient European history, reworked and transcribed in hieroglyphs as yet another historical transplantation, this time performed on the Chinese soil by the loving Jesuit hands. The Chinese are the next in line to go berserk. Chinese history is inevitably bound to get both more ancient and more eventful, proportionally to the growing involvement of China in the world affairs. Chinese historians will keep on finding valid proof of prehistoric Chinese spaceflights until the Politburo orders them to shut up.

The Arabs:

Too bad. Islam with all its key figures is datable to XV-XVI century A. D. Arabic historians may find consolation in the crucial historical role of the Ottoman Empire in the XVI-XVII century. The trouble is that this empire was initially a Christian state, with Hagia Sophia identifiable as Temple of Solomon, according to Fomenko! We can only guess if the acquisition of Alexander the Great (a Macedonian and a Christian) as the founder of the Muslim World Empire will make Fomenko's theories more acceptable to the Arabic mainstream. He certainly does not spare any holy cows at all, claiming The Stone of Qa'Aba in Mecca to contain the lost Arch of the Covenant.

The Divinity:

Despite of reiterated statement that his theory is all about chronology and not Religion, Fomenko stirs up a whole condominium of wasp nests. His collection of anathemas, fatwa, and other condemnations from all parties concerned is already considerable. Little wonder, considering that the history of religions à la Fomenko looks as follows: the pre-Christian period (before the XI century and JC), Bacchic Christianity (XI-XII century, before and after JC), JC Christianity (XII-XVI century) and its subsequent mutations into Orthodox Christianity, the Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism, and so on.

According to Fomenko we know strictly NOTHING about the events that predate the X century A. D.

St Augustin was prescient when he spoke unto us: "be wary of mathematicians, particularly when they speak the truth."

Something of a disappointment.......2005-09-09

After having read the first volume of this expected series of 7 volumes I was triggered by the thesis of these authors that ancient Greek and Roman history did in fact take place in the Middle Ages. So I started studying medieval history of the Middle East - also known as Islamic history - to find out if the opponents of the ancient Greeks and Romans - the Acheamenid Persians, Sassanids, Scythians, Egyptians, etc. - also have their duplicates in medieval history. My search was disappointing: none of the many medieval Islamic dynasties seemed to correspond to the ancient middle eastern rulers.

However, I did find a close correspondence between Herodotus' Persian kings and medieval events:

- the defeat and capture of an Anatolian king - the Lydian Croesus - by the Persian conqueror Cyrus is identical to the defeat and capture of another Anatolian king - sultan Bayezid - by the Asian/Mongol conqueror Tamerlane;
- the Persian conquest of Egypt by the cruel tyrant Cambyses reds almost exactly as the Ottoman conquest of Egypt by Selim the Grim (note the nickname!);
- Darius the Lawgiver of the Persian Empire looks very much alike to Sulayman the Magnificent, the Lawgiver in Islamic history;
- Xerxes, whose main claim to fame is to be defeated by the Greeks at the naval battle of Salamis, looks like Selim II (the Sot) whose main claim to fame is to be defeated by a Spanish-Italian alliance at the naval battle of Lepanto.

I should have expected Fomenko et al. to arrive at similar conclusions, however, they claim that the Persian kings are the alter egos of the Angevin kings of Sicily whose biographies do not contain the exploits of the Persian kings.

The similiarities I indicate lead to the conclusion that Herodotus must have written his Histories at the close of the 16th century. But this is extremely late, given that Herodotus is "the Father of History", so therefore all other "ancient" histories must have been fabricated even later. Yet, the founders of modern chronology - Scaliger and Petavius - laid their foundations also at the close of the 16th century and had the full corpus of ancient histories already at their disposal.

It seems to me that Fomenko has to address these inconsistencies, maybe in the forthcoming 5 volumes?

Another critique of their book is that the correspondencies between different rulers are often based on a superficial comparison of the biographies; upon a more thorough comparison many details appear that do not correspond at all.

Finally, the authors rely heavily on the works of Gregorovius (1821-1891!!) - his medieval histories of Rome and Athens - as the source of medieval history; these works are - at least in the West - hoplessly outdated and have been superceded by more up-to-date works (for instance, Julius Norwich's trilogy on Byzantine history is not even cited).

Romulus courts Helen, Paris founds Rome, Moses goes to Troy.........2005-07-30

If you agree with Fomenko that Roman chronology is basically the foundation of the entire edifice of global chronology; you would also certainly agree that despite its numerous gaps and inconsistencies, Roman history is the best-documented field of ancient history, and thus a reference scale. But how well is the actual date of the Eternal City's foundation known?

Firstly, Rome is supposed to have been founded by the Trojans who had to flee after the fall of Troy. Some claim Rome to have been founded by Aeneas and Ulysses shortly after Troy had fallen; others are of the opinion that there was an entire dynasty that ruled for 500 years between the fall of Troy and the foundation of Rome.

Well, that's just an innocent 500 years long misunderstanding compared with what heretic Fomenko says, asserts, proves in his second volume: Second Roman Empire, Third Roman Empire, Biblical Kingdom of Israel, Biblical Kingdom of Judah, Holy Roman Empire are stories about basically same events, written from different points of view at different times. The underlying events have actually taken place during xii-xv cy. These histories ha